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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 4 2013, 02:14 PM   #76
JarodRussell
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Sindatur wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And if you're worried about people being afraid of having to read up on Trek history, why not simply market it with “This is not your father's Khan?“ like they did in the first film?
If you're not going to try and cash on the iconic nature of Kahn, why would you Market Kahn?
No the point is that you can actually tell people that they do not have to know anything that came before.

It's not like people needed to read Batman and Joker comics to get The Dark Knight.
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Old December 4 2013, 02:39 PM   #77
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Wrong. John Harrison would have just been a normal human, not person with mega strength and speed. Khan's superhuman traits were added after Lindelof convinced the writers into making him Khan.
He'd have been called a blatant Khan rip-off just as mortal human clone Shinzon was.
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Old December 4 2013, 02:40 PM   #78
Set Harth
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

MakeshiftPython wrote:
For example, look at everything he has said about his upcoming Star Wars film, that it would be more in line with the original trilogy, be more dark and gritty, ect.
Slaughtering children wasn't dark enough? Damn.

Someone needs to tell this guy that we didn't get into SW as kids because it was "dark and gritty".
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Old December 4 2013, 02:43 PM   #79
JarodRussell
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Wrong. John Harrison would have just been a normal human, not person with mega strength and speed. Khan's superhuman traits were added after Lindelof convinced the writers into making him Khan.
He'd have been called a blatant Khan rip-off just as mortal human clone Shinzon was.
Shinzon was only called a Khan rip-off by some, because Berman & Co promoted him like it. "This is Picard's Khan" they told us.


And since when do you care when some hardcore fans call the villain a ripoff?
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Old December 4 2013, 02:59 PM   #80
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And since when do you care when some hardcore fans call the villain a ripoff?
I just think it's a silly situation. Khan'd if you do, Khan'd if you don't...
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Old December 4 2013, 03:24 PM   #81
Bad Thoughts
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I would have at least thought it to be clever, in a meta sort-of-way, if Harrison had been a Khan clone.
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Old December 4 2013, 03:35 PM   #82
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Coach Comet wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison and actually try and build some momentum to this new Trek universe. And instead of a reboot we got a rehash. What really irks me is that $195 million went into this movie and there was a significant delay since JJ wanted the right script (or something he said in 2012 or 2011?) and this was it? A finished product which amounted to no more than an average blockbuster summer movie?

With all that time and money the final outcome was something rather timid and unadventurous. It would have been cool to simply explore a lot more the consequences of what happened in ST 2009, and ST 2009 -- a decent movie by the way -- did some insane stuff and it felt daring and adventurous.

I wonder if STID is a beginning of a trend for new ST movies. Are they going to be a collection of Star Trek's greatest 'hits' or iconic characters/moments? If JJ and Hollywood are anything to go by they're going to be playing increasingly safe... And boring.
TMP was more of a rehash of The Changeling than STID was a rehash of TWOK, and this is despite the fact that a few individual scenes were beamed largely intact from TWOK straight into STID. I'm not trying to excuse STID for its faults. Rather, I'm simply pointing out that there not being much new in Trek films would be, well, nothing new, except that not having anything new to offer frankly isn't true of STID. The drone strike metaphor alone was worth the price of admission; for being critical of ongoing US policy in a time of war, how can anyone call that timid?

As for STID being "no more than an average blockbuster", well, first of all, "average blockbuster" is an oxymoron. If every Trek film were an average blockbuster, then we'd be sure of Trek movies forever. So, yay! Secondly, [domestic, worldwide] whaddayawant? Look at what STID beat: Wolverine, my goodness it creamed the Johnny Depp vehicle, it's almost certainly gonna hammer Thor domestically....
That's the problem. Star Trek has a rich backstory to draw from and they would be foolish not to. But then they run the risk of being more rehashes that something original And I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness very much.

The one storyline I wish they would ditch for the next movie is the "bad man with a big gun." That has literally been the premise of the last three films going back to Nemesis. Enough with the superships already. How about we have the Enterprise in an actual firefight with a real ship?
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Old December 4 2013, 04:11 PM   #83
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Agenda wrote: View Post
My problem with JJ is I'm not sure if he's more interested in making a good movie or a money making movie. Did he really think that Khan would be better, or did he allow the script to be compromised because he thought it would increase the $$$?
Abrams movies do tend to be simply a checklist of all the various ingredients that are believed to pull in lots of money at the box office. And for the most part, I guess he does pull in money, even if the movies are very shallow and one note. Sure STID is a blast to watch once, even I gave it a glowing and positive review when I saw it in theatres. But on subsequent viewings, it doesn't really hold up that well.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote:
JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison...
Admittedly, given that most of the recent Trek movies have in some way ripped off TWOK and the villains are mostly Khan knock-offs it's good that they finally have used Khan as the villain and re-hashed TWOK just so they can finally get that out of their system.
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Old December 4 2013, 04:59 PM   #84
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I don´t know if someone has already said it but in my opinion, Cumberbatch played an augment, created a character so brilliantly and shaped it in his own way that he didn’t need to be Khan.
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Old December 4 2013, 05:01 PM   #85
Ryan8bit
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I don't think Shinzon in himself is really that much of a Khan ripoff. I think the whole story of Nemesis definitely did take a lot of cues from the story Wrath of Khan though. That's probably part of the reason Shinzon gets likened to him.

The new villain didn't necessarily have to be Khan, but there probably would have been comparisons if he wasn't. I'm sure the next villain will be compared too... especially if they can't stop doing the madman who wants to destroy Earth type junk.
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Old December 4 2013, 05:02 PM   #86
Kelthaz
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Shinzon's character isn't a Khan rip off, but Shinzon's role in the film was a Khan ripoff.
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Old December 4 2013, 05:17 PM   #87
Hober Mallow
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Ln X wrote: View Post
JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison and actually try and build some momentum to this new Trek universe. And instead of a reboot we got a rehash. What really irks me is that $195 million went into this movie and there was a significant delay since JJ wanted the right script (or something he said in 2012 or 2011?) and this was it? A finished product which amounted to no more than an average blockbuster summer movie?
I didn't like the movie, but it had nothing to do with the inclusion of Khan. Mostly it was the fact that we got the exact same plot -- Evil Bad Guy[TM] from another time is out for revenge -- two films in a row. Something a little more imaginative would be nice for the next film.
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Old December 4 2013, 11:39 PM   #88
thumbtack
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
That question from the interviewer felt planted to me, because JJ wanted to send out a message.

No.

Fanboy rage did nothing to harm Iron Man 3, and fanboy fawning did nothing to help Pacific Rim. Star Trek is no different.

Abrams' inference that Hollywood simply doesn't give a shit about fan opinion may have been his only entirely truthful statement in that interview.


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Old December 5 2013, 04:11 AM   #89
Set Harth
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Iron Man 3 profited from goodwill toward The Avengers.
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Old December 5 2013, 04:13 AM   #90
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Iron Man 3 profited from goodwill toward The Avengers.
Then, why won't Thor 2, to the same degree?
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