RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,425
Posts: 5,506,818
Members: 25,130
Currently online: 610
Newest member: wilpatbenthe3

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 27 2013, 06:24 AM   #181
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I really didn't see Khan as out for revenge though? He seemed more interested in recovering his people. At least that was my interpretation of events. YMMV.
Pretty much. Khan/Harrison wanted his people to be recovered, but he also wanted revenge on Marcus and Starfleet/Earth afterward, so he staged the crash of the ship into the city.
That was only after he thought Spock had killed his people. Before that, he just wanted to kick Marcus's ass and get his people back.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 06:27 AM   #182
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^ Which was a revenge story against Marcus, was it not?
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 01:00 PM   #183
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

It also was promoted as revenge story. When Cumberbatch said he wanted to have his vengeance, he wasn't talking about the ship.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 06:16 PM   #184
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Those teasers were nothing if not misdirecting.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 07:40 PM   #185
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Rhovanion
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I'm still wondering how Cumberbatch detonated the fleet.
__________________
Whatever happens on earth, that up there, that's the endgame.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 08:25 PM   #186
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
That was only after he thought Spock had killed his people. Before that, he just wanted to kick Marcus's ass and get his people back.
Actually, no. Khan was out for revenge from the very start. He says so himself.

I had no choice but to escape alone. And when I did, I had every reason to suspect that Marcus had killed every single one of the people I hold most dear. So I responded in kind.
Revenge.

If he actually wanted to recover his people, you think he would have had that guy with the explosive ring run a check to see what Section 31 had actually done with the torpedoes? Nope. He just wanted to blow them all up.

But hey, this is how you treat an iconic villain in Star Trek. Everything he does is misguided because he assumed everything incorrectly. Maybe the original Khan just "assumed" that his 20 followers died when they just moved to a different part of the planet, and Marla went with them.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27 2013, 09:04 PM   #187
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 01:04 AM   #188
Bumbles861
Admiral
 
Bumbles861's Avatar
 
Location: bbailey861 in Kingston, ON
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Harvey wrote: View Post
Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
Bumbles861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 01:25 AM   #189
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Bumbles861 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
I really liked Weller in the movie.

I know it sounds like gushing, but I don't think there's a bad performance too be found in Star Trek Into Darkness. The entire cast displays an energy that has been missing from Star Trek for a very, very long time.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 02:24 AM   #190
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

BillJ wrote: View Post
I really liked Weller in the movie.

I know it sounds like gushing, but I don't think there's a bad performance too be found in Star Trek Into Darkness. The entire cast displays an energy that has been missing from Star Trek for a very, very long time.
Agree. One thing I'm still very pleased about NuTrek is the cast they chose. All of them are awesome, in fact I was only thinking the other day just how much I think Pine aces his role as Kirk. I'd love to see them in these roles for a few more movies after the next one but I'm doubtful that's gonna happen.

I do like the bait-and-switch of Weller being the 'actual' villain of the movie. Even when Khan pops him like a grape I never felt anything but empathy for CumberKhan's predicament (did the film-makers intend that, or am I 'supposed' to see Khan as a bad guy? Hella mistake if they didn't).

On the other hand, the use of two villains puts me in mind of all those comic book movies, where they're both kinda jostling for their share of the plot. Bad memories of Spider-Man 3 maybe where I thought that kinda thing blew up in the face of the studio executives and audience. Throwing more at us isn't always the answer although I admit in Star Trek it's a refreshing change from the 'one villain' format of years past.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 02:38 AM   #191
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

It was still the basic main and secondary bad guy formula. You have that in Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations. In Insurrection, Picard even teams up with the secondary bad guy.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 02:51 AM   #192
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^ I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you are absolutely right. All I can say is, I think STID maybe presents the 'villains' on more of a par with each other, whereas the older movies were definitely a "primary villain, secondary villain" format. The Duras sisters took down the Ent-D, but when I think of the 'villain' in GENS I tend to overlook them completely, so relatively insignificant are they to the thrust of the plot. That movie actually feels like it's only got one villain... when it's really got three!
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2013, 05:13 AM   #193
Peach Wookiee
Cuddly Mod of Doom
 
Peach Wookiee's Avatar
 
Location: Peach Wookiee
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

And that makes it a lot of fun! I saw Into Darkness twice in the theaters and it was amazing! And yeah, JJ should've just gone ahead and told us it was KHAAAAAAAAAAN!
Peach Wookiee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2013, 01:32 AM   #194
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Bumbles861 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
I love these little bits about Weller's performance of Marcus, like "Aw, shit, YOU TALKED TO HIM!"
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2013, 10:42 PM   #195
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.