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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 27 2013, 06:24 AM   #181
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

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I really didn't see Khan as out for revenge though? He seemed more interested in recovering his people. At least that was my interpretation of events. YMMV.
Pretty much. Khan/Harrison wanted his people to be recovered, but he also wanted revenge on Marcus and Starfleet/Earth afterward, so he staged the crash of the ship into the city.
That was only after he thought Spock had killed his people. Before that, he just wanted to kick Marcus's ass and get his people back.
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Old December 27 2013, 06:27 AM   #182
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^ Which was a revenge story against Marcus, was it not?
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Old December 27 2013, 01:00 PM   #183
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

It also was promoted as revenge story. When Cumberbatch said he wanted to have his vengeance, he wasn't talking about the ship.
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Old December 27 2013, 06:16 PM   #184
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Those teasers were nothing if not misdirecting.
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Old December 27 2013, 07:40 PM   #185
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I'm still wondering how Cumberbatch detonated the fleet.
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Old December 27 2013, 08:25 PM   #186
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

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That was only after he thought Spock had killed his people. Before that, he just wanted to kick Marcus's ass and get his people back.
Actually, no. Khan was out for revenge from the very start. He says so himself.

I had no choice but to escape alone. And when I did, I had every reason to suspect that Marcus had killed every single one of the people I hold most dear. So I responded in kind.
Revenge.

If he actually wanted to recover his people, you think he would have had that guy with the explosive ring run a check to see what Section 31 had actually done with the torpedoes? Nope. He just wanted to blow them all up.

But hey, this is how you treat an iconic villain in Star Trek. Everything he does is misguided because he assumed everything incorrectly. Maybe the original Khan just "assumed" that his 20 followers died when they just moved to a different part of the planet, and Marla went with them.
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Old December 27 2013, 09:04 PM   #187
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
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Old December 28 2013, 01:04 AM   #188
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

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Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
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Old December 28 2013, 01:25 AM   #189
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

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Harvey wrote: View Post
Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
I really liked Weller in the movie.

I know it sounds like gushing, but I don't think there's a bad performance too be found in Star Trek Into Darkness. The entire cast displays an energy that has been missing from Star Trek for a very, very long time.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:24 AM   #190
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

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I really liked Weller in the movie.

I know it sounds like gushing, but I don't think there's a bad performance too be found in Star Trek Into Darkness. The entire cast displays an energy that has been missing from Star Trek for a very, very long time.
Agree. One thing I'm still very pleased about NuTrek is the cast they chose. All of them are awesome, in fact I was only thinking the other day just how much I think Pine aces his role as Kirk. I'd love to see them in these roles for a few more movies after the next one but I'm doubtful that's gonna happen.

I do like the bait-and-switch of Weller being the 'actual' villain of the movie. Even when Khan pops him like a grape I never felt anything but empathy for CumberKhan's predicament (did the film-makers intend that, or am I 'supposed' to see Khan as a bad guy? Hella mistake if they didn't).

On the other hand, the use of two villains puts me in mind of all those comic book movies, where they're both kinda jostling for their share of the plot. Bad memories of Spider-Man 3 maybe where I thought that kinda thing blew up in the face of the studio executives and audience. Throwing more at us isn't always the answer although I admit in Star Trek it's a refreshing change from the 'one villain' format of years past.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:38 AM   #191
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

It was still the basic main and secondary bad guy formula. You have that in Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations. In Insurrection, Picard even teams up with the secondary bad guy.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:51 AM   #192
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^ I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you are absolutely right. All I can say is, I think STID maybe presents the 'villains' on more of a par with each other, whereas the older movies were definitely a "primary villain, secondary villain" format. The Duras sisters took down the Ent-D, but when I think of the 'villain' in GENS I tend to overlook them completely, so relatively insignificant are they to the thrust of the plot. That movie actually feels like it's only got one villain... when it's really got three!
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Old December 28 2013, 05:13 AM   #193
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

And that makes it a lot of fun! I saw Into Darkness twice in the theaters and it was amazing! And yeah, JJ should've just gone ahead and told us it was KHAAAAAAAAAAN!
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Old December 29 2013, 01:32 AM   #194
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Bumbles861 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
I love these little bits about Weller's performance of Marcus, like "Aw, shit, YOU TALKED TO HIM!"
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Old December 29 2013, 10:42 PM   #195
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
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