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Old December 5 2013, 11:31 PM   #1
TheGoodNews
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Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_TSwRKZ6KU
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Old December 5 2013, 11:35 PM   #2
Gov Kodos
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Do you have any comment on whatever this is?
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Old December 5 2013, 11:47 PM   #3
Collingwood Nick
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

All it will achieve is a devaluation of wealth. Also, I talk to the 99% every day - they are my customers - and I don't think they have the knowledge, personality or courage to own the businesses that pay them. Most people are more comfortable with a regular paycheque than the risks of owning a business.
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Old December 6 2013, 12:19 AM   #4
TheGoodNews
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Collingwood Nick wrote: View Post
All it will achieve is a devaluation of wealth. Also, I talk to the 99% every day - they are my customers - and I don't think they have the knowledge, personality or courage to own the businesses that pay them. Most people are more comfortable with a regular paycheque than the risks of owning a business.
And yet it works. At over 80k self-managed employees, Mondragon is still thriving. Of course, there are those who feel threatened by the idea of workers' self-management and will typically make any trite (and supported) remarks against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNwAZSBMb0
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Old December 6 2013, 01:28 AM   #5
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

I've heard of a few companies that do this, it seems to work perfectly for them.
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Old December 6 2013, 02:59 AM   #6
TheGoodNews
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

A Jewel Christmas wrote: View Post
I've heard of a few companies that do this, it seems to work perfectly for them.
And in the U.S. co-ops have been on the rise, as well as abroad:

Greece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_Zsa2EAqA

Argentina - where it turned out to be a life saver for many workers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcostesK0Ik

And historically in Spain, which was the most profound experiment in worker ownership:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUig0lFHDDw

The Nordic countries also have large numbers of co-ops.

"In spite of all the monumental difficulties, one big fact stands out: in Alcoy 20,000 workers organized in their syndicates administered production, coordinated economic activities, and proved that industry can be operated better in every respect than under capitalism, while still assuring freedom and justice for all..." The Anarchist Collectives by Sam Dolgoff.

"Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia
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Old December 6 2013, 04:00 AM   #7
sojourner
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Do you actually have anything to say besides reposting the same spanish historical anecdote over and over again?
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Old December 6 2013, 04:55 AM   #8
TheGoodNews
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Yeah, co-ops RULE! Now go back to working for the Man.
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Old December 6 2013, 07:24 AM   #9
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

The Good News, It is very much frowned upon here to post a link or quote an article and not comment on the content of whatever it is. I will give you a pass on it once, but please refrain from this in the future.
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Old December 6 2013, 06:57 PM   #10
Peach Wookiee
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

I'd argue that it's still capitalism, just a different form of it.
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Old December 6 2013, 08:49 PM   #11
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

I'd argue that it's not even a different form of capitalism. That's the way the US has always done it. Workers start a business, and grow it, and hire other workers, etc, etc. Marx and Engels called America the graveyard of communists because every time they'd send an activist over he'd drop out of contact and disappear, and would later be discovered to have opened a small business because that's easy to do in the US.

All this week, the means of production are on sale at Home Depot and Sears. It's not like we keep the cool tools locked away or anything.
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Old December 6 2013, 08:51 PM   #12
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Workers ownership for the 99%?

No, actually, it was Wolverhampton Wanderers, who beat Leicester, 3-1.

gturner wrote: View Post
Marx and Engels called America the graveyard of communists because every time they'd send an activist over he'd drop out of contact and disappear, and would later be discovered to have opened a small business because that's easy to do in the US.
Touché!
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Old December 8 2013, 12:09 AM   #13
TheGoodNews
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

All this week, the means of production are on sale at Home Depot and Sears. It's not like we keep the cool tools locked away or anything.
Noam Chomsky might take a different view. In the book Chomsky on Anarchism he does mention that Dan Noble's work at MIT on computerized manufacturing, designed to allow the workers to self-manage with a minimum of supervision, was suppressed.
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Old December 8 2013, 12:18 AM   #14
TheGoodNews
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Touché!
Don't forget, they also said capitalism will be done in by its own contradictions. And with the way things are fast going here with technological unemployment, severe wage disparity, environmental crisis, costly wars & surveillance state, dysfunctional infrastructure and all the social and medical ills they are engendering before your very eyes Monsieur Laserbeam, the U.S. may fast become the graveyard of the neoliberalism you seem to worship.
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Old December 8 2013, 06:26 AM   #15
gturner
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Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

Well, anyone who starts out their business plan with "steal somebody else's tools" is probably not going to do very well, probably astonished to find out there are other people called "competitors."

And of course, what dooms such enterprises is simple logic. As soon as they take over the means of production (aka "stealing someone else's tools"), they realize they could just sell the tools, pocket the money as 100% profit, and not have to work. ie. If a stewardess steals an airliner, does she a) give herself a moderate raise and keep serving drinks or b) sell it to Qatar Airways for $100 million quick dollars and develop a profound coke habit in Vegas? The reason this didn't entirely happen under communism was that their revolution simultaneously destroyed the market for stolen factories.
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