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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old December 2 2013, 05:24 AM   #91
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

RandyS wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
JD5000 wrote: View Post
You're very probably right, but does that mean Earth is the only major Federation power that doesn't have a fleet dedicated to the defense of it's planet?

Starfleet pre-dates the Federation.
Earth Starfleet existed before the Federation. But it ceased to exist when the Federation was born.
I think It's more accurate to say that it ceased to be "Human-only" when the Federation was born. After that, it expanded to include the races from the other member worlds.
No, it would cease to be once the Federation was formed. It would be absorbed into the Federation's own Starfleet. Certain traditions might be carried over into the new organization.
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Old December 2 2013, 10:38 AM   #92
Elvira
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

RandyS wrote: View Post
I think It's more accurate to say that it ceased to be "Human-only" when the Federation was born. After that, it expanded to include the races from the other member worlds.
Even in TNG, We see "the Federation Flagship" in many way still being a Human/Earth ship. Human Captain, First Officer, Chief Engineer (all the first season engineers), both head Doctors. The ship itself built in the solar system.

When Picard is temporarily replaced, it's with a Human. When Riker finally gets his own ship, his replacement is Human.

Anwar wrote: View Post
By TNG, they changed it so they were an equal alliance of worlds.
With Earth being first among equals? Earth holds the governing body of the Federation, instead of that body being located on any of the other members home worlds.

We actually don't know if the 150 plus members are in fact "equal." There could easily be some form of hierarchy among the membership, with the founding member having senior status.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Earth Starfleet existed before the Federation. But it ceased to exist when the Federation was born.
This has never been established.

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Old December 2 2013, 04:50 PM   #93
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Earth Starfleet existed before the Federation. But it ceased to exist when the Federation was born.
This has never been established.
Yes, actually, it has.
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Old December 2 2013, 05:14 PM   #94
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

Earth is also the capital of the Federation.

A president, even if from another world, has to preside on earth.
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Old December 2 2013, 06:06 PM   #95
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Earth is also the capital of the Federation.

A president, even if from another world, has to preside on earth.
Which means?
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Old December 2 2013, 07:29 PM   #96
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Earth Starfleet existed before the Federation. But it ceased to exist when the Federation was born.
This has never been established.
Yes, actually, it has.
I was referring to the Earth organization known as Starfleet ceasing to exist never being established at any point.

Obviously Earth had a Starfleet before the Federation came into existence. I should have been clearer.


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Old December 2 2013, 09:51 PM   #97
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

^ And the Starfleet that Earth had, is not the same one that the Federation has. You only have to look at them to see that. It's obvious.
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Old December 2 2013, 10:28 PM   #98
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

How so? It looks like the same Starfleet to me. It would certainly be odd for the producers to intend the prequel series to feature some other group called Starfleet Command.
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Old December 2 2013, 10:31 PM   #99
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

^Functionally speaking, Earth Starfleet became UFP Starfleet. Although one ended and the other began, it may have been nothing more than a name change in the organizations rapid evolution.
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Old December 3 2013, 12:08 AM   #100
Nightdiamond
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Earth is also the capital of the Federation.

A president, even if from another world, has to preside on earth.
Which means?
Throw it into the mix of the "homo-sapiens only club" discussions.

The article accused Trek (or the in universe storyline ) of being very human-centric .

The author would have probably argued that having a majority human Starfleet, along with stationing the capital and government on earth, proved the point.

You have a majority human Starfleet, Starfleet command is based on Earth, most of the ships names are earth history based. The capital is also based on earth and so is the government and Federation council.

I just wonder how secure other alien members of the Fed would feel about that.

I always had the impression that all Fed members had equal influence and presence, (I still do) but it does make you think when this is pointed out.

When the Dominion War aired, and I was cheering for Starfleet to win, I automatically assumed that the officers and soldiers who were fighting and dying were human.
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Old December 3 2013, 02:26 AM   #101
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
How so? It looks like the same Starfleet to me. It would certainly be odd for the producers to intend the prequel series to feature some other group called Starfleet Command.
Pel the Yeshiva Ferengi wrote: View Post
^Functionally speaking, Earth Starfleet became UFP Starfleet. Although one ended and the other began, it may have been nothing more than a name change in the organizations rapid evolution.
Well, for one thing, Earth Starfleet isn't military, but the Federation Starfleet is. That alone should tell you something.

I agree that when the Federation was formed, its Starfleet must have taken cues from the Earth version as to how to organize things. But logically speaking, they can't actually be the same organization. Totally different areas of jurisdiction and responsibility, let alone mission profiles.
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Old December 3 2013, 03:46 AM   #102
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

My thoughts...

-Agreed on the "rock music" comment. It's highly unlikely that television, baseball etc. will be gone in a few hundred years. Competition has always been a popular form of entertainment and so has many different forms of music. I doubt that people in the future are just going to lay back in a chair and listen to Beethoven after a long hard day's work or just want to go to a holosuite on a weekend.

-The part about "Federation is always right" was true in Next Generation but not so on DS9. The Federation and it's ethics were questioned on DS9 constantly which is why it's been a favorite of so many people. This article was published after only a few seasons of DS9 so I'll cut the writer some slack on this one.

-Society- Cassette tapes no longer exist so the writer ended up being wrong on that count. Plus there's nothing stupid or pointless about sacrificing what you want to help the greater good. Real members of the military do that every day. That's why their usually referred to as heroes.

-Unlikely Civilizations- The writer is apparently ignorant of the universal translator.

-Blinded Science- I find it hard to take this paragraph seriously after the writer has just told us that he loves T2 and Jurassic park. Apparently a race that integrates computers in the brain is WAY more silly that robots who can transport into the past at will or dinosaurs being brought back to life on an island

-Seen that Plot before-um....... see my post above.

-In closing-

Trek might not be on T.V anymore but the conventions haven't went anywhere. Sorry.....
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Old December 3 2013, 04:01 AM   #103
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

I tend to see the human-centricity of Starfleet as a budgetary constraint.

Although it's true that in the 60s the networks had the impression people couldn't feel sympathy for humans the way they do for humans.
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Old December 3 2013, 04:25 AM   #104
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I tend to see the human-centricity of Starfleet as a budgetary constraint.

Although it's true that in the 60s the networks had the impression people couldn't feel sympathy for humans the way they do for humans.
In the 60s most of the aliens looked like humans, anyway.
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Old December 3 2013, 06:31 AM   #105
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Re: Why Star Trek Sucks

And the reason they listen to classical music and stuff was because they figured it would just needlessly date the show if the characters were shown listening to Britney Spears.
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