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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old January 18 2014, 06:31 PM   #91
dub
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
CBS are looking at and talking about DS9...No "green light" for DS9 has been given yet, but they certainly know that fans want the show in HD
Good to know they're at least discussing it! Thanks!
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Old January 18 2014, 10:16 PM   #92
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Mage wrote: View Post
As far as I understood, it had nothing to do with TPTB thinking that fans thought it would be the Enterprise, but with TPTB behind the movies wanted the Sovereign exclusivly for the movies and nothing else.
Either way, that edict is obviously null and void now if they decided to add some Sovereigns into the mix.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:44 PM   #93
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
As far as I understood, it had nothing to do with TPTB thinking that fans thought it would be the Enterprise, but with TPTB behind the movies wanted the Sovereign exclusivly for the movies and nothing else.
Either way, that edict is obviously null and void now if they decided to add some Sovereigns into the mix.
Except, the edict for the TNG remastered project also precludes this. Their entire mission statement was to reconstruct the episode from the raw film, not to revamp or dramatically change things. So I don't think it will happen. For example BOBW's (or Unifcation's re-use of the) grave yard scene didn't get more variety of ships in it.

Not including Sovereign's wasn't an error, it was a silly but deliberate decision by TPTB at the time. So I don't expect to see any, even though it certainly does make sense that there should have been.

Last edited by SpHeRe31459; January 19 2014 at 09:35 PM.
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Old January 19 2014, 08:42 AM   #94
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

I always assumed the Sovereign wasn't included in any of the spin-offs because they wanted it to be something exclusive for the films, to make it that special.
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Old January 19 2014, 09:41 PM   #95
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
Work on TNG has already progressed well into Season 7 (indeed, film scanning has already been completed).
I assume they're well down the road on Season Six then.... If you have any news regarding Season Six Blu-Ray plans, we'd love to see them posted on that board.
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Old January 19 2014, 10:13 PM   #96
Dukhat
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
As far as I understood, it had nothing to do with TPTB thinking that fans thought it would be the Enterprise, but with TPTB behind the movies wanted the Sovereign exclusivly for the movies and nothing else.
Either way, that edict is obviously null and void now if they decided to add some Sovereigns into the mix.
Except, the edict for the TNG remastered project also precludes this. Their entire mission statement was to reconstruct the episode from the raw film, not to revamp or dramatically change things. So I don't think it will happen. For example BOBW's (or Unifcation's re-use of the) grave yard scene didn't get more variety of ships in it.

Not including Sovereign's wasn't an error, it was a silly but deliberate decision by TPTB at the time. So I don't expect to see any, even though it certainly does make sense that there should have been.
You misunderstand. The BoBW scene was filmed with physical models, and the scene was just remastered in HD. The DS9 fleet scenes were filmed with CGI. The scenes will have to be entirely redone, unlike BoBW, because the CGI will not stand up to an HD remaster. So there's no reason why the new CGI scenes have to look anything like they did before or have the same ships as they did before.
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Old January 20 2014, 02:14 AM   #97
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post

Either way, that edict is obviously null and void now if they decided to add some Sovereigns into the mix.
Except, the edict for the TNG remastered project also precludes this. Their entire mission statement was to reconstruct the episode from the raw film, not to revamp or dramatically change things. So I don't think it will happen. For example BOBW's (or Unifcation's re-use of the) grave yard scene didn't get more variety of ships in it.

Not including Sovereign's wasn't an error, it was a silly but deliberate decision by TPTB at the time. So I don't expect to see any, even though it certainly does make sense that there should have been.
You misunderstand. The BoBW scene was filmed with physical models, and the scene was just remastered in HD. The DS9 fleet scenes were filmed with CGI. The scenes will have to be entirely redone, unlike BoBW, because the CGI will not stand up to an HD remaster. So there's no reason why the new CGI scenes have to look anything like they did before or have the same ships as they did before.
No misunderstanding. The edict is the same. Recreate it faithfully. What's more we know the original CGI files exist for some (or perhaps most) of the assets, thanks to guys like Rob Bonchune taking them home. So it seems they really could recreate them exactly.

Also only the last couple of seasons feature CGI heavily. Before that it's all physical models, hence the many kitbashed ships.
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Old January 20 2014, 05:54 AM   #98
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

I really hope something exists of the wormhole FX. The wormhole is as iconic to DS9 as the Enterprise is to TOS and TNG. IMO, that's one set of FX they need to get just right.
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Old January 20 2014, 10:40 AM   #99
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
You misunderstand. The BoBW scene was filmed with physical models, and the scene was just remastered in HD. The DS9 fleet scenes were filmed with CGI. The scenes will have to be entirely redone, unlike BoBW, because the CGI will not stand up to an HD remaster. So there's no reason why the new CGI scenes have to look anything like they did before or have the same ships as they did before.

As has been stated several times in this topic alone, a lot of the CGI scenes have been saved by members of the team who originally created them. Re-rendering them in HD is as simple as loading them, checking for any errors, and rendering in a higher resolution. They have already tried this with a screenshot of a Nebula class starship in warp, from the episode 'Waltz'. They were amazed with how well the entire mesh and textures worked in HD, with perhaps only a little tweaking required.

Besides, a lot of fans don't want anything changed. They loved the show the way it was, and want to keep it that way. Since when is Star Trek the same as Star Wars, where the director feels the need to change every damned little detail all the effing time?
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Old January 20 2014, 12:42 PM   #100
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Mage wrote: View Post
Besides, a lot of fans don't want anything changed. They loved the show the way it was, and want to keep it that way. Since when is Star Trek the same as Star Wars, where the director feels the need to change every damned little detail all the effing time?
I think CBS Home Entertainment is foremost interested in generating profits, so considerations to preserve the series in HD and to please the fans come second.

I mean, what do the demographics say? IIRC TNG was more popular than DS9, so CBS will take this into consideration when deciding how to "remaster" DS9.

Should the fanbase not be sufficient to justify the costs of remastering, CBS will probably consider options like these:
  • re-envision VFX (DS9 "Special Edition"), probably depending whether the original CGI effects are still complete, affordable and how good these could look in HD
  • re-formatting DS9 to 16:9
Bob
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Old January 20 2014, 02:34 PM   #101
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I really hope something exists of the wormhole FX. The wormhole is as iconic to DS9 as the Enterprise is to TOS and TNG. IMO, that's one set of FX they need to get just right.
The wormhole was a CG effect. I believe it was created by Rhythm & Hues (the same company that did the CG for the Klingon Encounter ride at STTE), unfortunately the company went under last year.
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Old January 20 2014, 08:23 PM   #102
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I really hope something exists of the wormhole FX. The wormhole is as iconic to DS9 as the Enterprise is to TOS and TNG. IMO, that's one set of FX they need to get just right.
That's what I hope as well. The wormhole effect is one of the most beautiful and most interesting television effects I know. It would be a shame to see it substituted with something that might be up to HD standards, yet isn't as beautiful.
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Old January 20 2014, 08:25 PM   #103
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Well there's no way CBS-D would let something subpar pass for the wormhole. Considering it's so critical to the show, and will be reused again and again throughout the series. If the VFX for it are lost and/or too old to be used in modern software you can bet that they will take a lot of time and energy getting it right.
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Old January 20 2014, 11:09 PM   #104
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
No misunderstanding. The edict is the same. Recreate it faithfully. What's more we know the original CGI files exist for some (or perhaps most) of the assets, thanks to guys like Rob Bonchune taking them home. So it seems they really could recreate them exactly.
We'll see how 20+ year old files stand up to a modern HD treatment when it happens. For right now, I'd assume that it would be easier and more practical to just recreate new ships from scratch with the newest CG technology.

As for recreating the scenes faithfully, that wasn't my issue. It was having the opportunity to show more ship designs than the outdated Excelsior, Miranda, and Klingon BoP we constantly saw. What actually happened in those scenes makes no difference to me.

Also only the last couple of seasons feature CGI heavily. Before that it's all physical models, hence the many kitbashed ships.
I wasn't talking about the model shots needing to be changed, only the CGI fleet scenes we saw in seasons 6 & 7.

Mage wrote: View Post
As has been stated several times in this topic alone, a lot of the CGI scenes have been saved by members of the team who originally created them. Re-rendering them in HD is as simple as loading them, checking for any errors, and rendering in a higher resolution. They have already tried this with a screenshot of a Nebula class starship in warp, from the episode 'Waltz'. They were amazed with how well the entire mesh and textures worked in HD, with perhaps only a little tweaking required.
And as I said before, that HD upconvert of the Nebula looks fake and cartoony to me. They can say it looks awesome all they want, but it doesn't to me.

Besides, a lot of fans don't want anything changed. They loved the show the way it was, and want to keep it that way. Since when is Star Trek the same as Star Wars, where the director feels the need to change every damned little detail all the effing time?
Who said anything about changing every little detail? All I said was that if they have to recreate the CGI fleet scenes (a possible necessity for an HD transfer, not a change just for the sake of changing things a la Lucas), then it would be nice to have a little more variety with the ship designs. That's hardly making Greedo shoot first or have R2-D2 peek out from behind a boulder sideways.
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Old January 20 2014, 11:21 PM   #105
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
We'll see how 20+ year old files stand up to a modern HD treatment when it happens. For right now, I'd assume that it would be easier and more practical to just recreate new ships from scratch with the newest CG technology.
Recreating from scratch is easier? Not at all!

The sheer amount of effort CBS-D have to put in to recreate the few TNG CG elements from scratch is HUGE. Doing that with DS9 would be financially crippling for any project.
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