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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 18 2014, 04:01 AM   #886
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Salinga wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I don't think that's possible. The final FX shots in SD are part of the SD episode master tapes mixed in with the live action. There's no way to separate the elements in the video master tape.
You could overlay the HD live action over the finished SD shot (using the green screen areas as "holes").
Yeah, but there wouldn't be a green screen. There's only the completed episode on the master tapes -- FX/live action mix -- with no way to separate elements. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.
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Old August 18 2014, 04:09 AM   #887
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

I think the idea is for the live action to get remastered just like the TNG project, and then upres the CGI from the SD masters and insert it into the newly remastered live action. Wouldn't work for all shots.
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Old August 18 2014, 04:23 AM   #888
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
I think the idea is for the live action to get remastered just like the TNG project, and then upres the CGI from the SD masters and insert it into the newly remastered live action. Wouldn't work for all shots.
Yeah, but my point is that besides the exterior space shots, the FX shots are inseparable from the live action. The SD FX aren't separate elements. The FX and live action were mixed together for the final episode video master and are now one shot. So you can't just insert the SD FX into HD live action.
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Old August 18 2014, 06:01 AM   #889
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
So you can't just insert the SD FX into HD live action.
Of course you can. It's just that it will look like shit.
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Old August 18 2014, 06:07 AM   #890
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Basically. It'd be...reverse rotoscoping
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Old August 18 2014, 11:18 AM   #891
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
I think the idea is for the live action to get remastered just like the TNG project, and then upres the CGI from the SD masters and insert it into the newly remastered live action. Wouldn't work for all shots.
No, it only would work for green screen SFX like stars through windows, viewscreens and actors in front of a green screen wall.
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Old August 18 2014, 12:09 PM   #892
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Well, I guess that in those cases CBS could simply redo th FX, like they are doing with TNG. Probably talking about phaser shots, transporter effects, Odo's morphs, and the like. Shouldn't be too expensive.

It's the predominant use of CGI beginning with Season 6, including those huge fleet battles, which worries me. Redoing those would probably cost prohibitive.

Also rewatched "Sacrifice of Angels" and, like before, the CGI seemed quite crisp.

Strangely, the CGI sequences in Voyager's "Scorpion" and "Year of Hell" looked much softer and low res. Though that's another issue...

Enterprise, Firefly and Farscape all got BD releases with upconverted CGI and, from what I have seen, look quite alright (though Farscape suffers in the live action shots, since they simple upconverted the 576i PAL master tapes).

Of course, a real remaster in the same vein of those two famous videos from youtube would be much better, but one must be willing to accept the possible...
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Old August 18 2014, 03:36 PM   #893
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
I think the idea is for the live action to get remastered just like the TNG project, and then upres the CGI from the SD masters and insert it into the newly remastered live action. Wouldn't work for all shots.
I honestly think if they do DS9, due to the amount of CGI within scenes (apparently they used primitive CG to get rid of set clutter, insert displays etc) they will have to do it right or not at all.

All the modern treks (with the exception of Enterprise) look absolutely appalling on DVD, even without the harsh glare of HD. They weren't just SD material, they were poor quality SD material. I've watched a few episodes of VGR recently on Amazon and the quality is piss poor.

Not only would an upscaling be a rip off for fans, I'm dubious as to whether it would work at all.

When we hear something more definitive from an insider I'll be interested to know what has gone on - maybe they have worked on the principle that with physical media dying on its ass they can't afford to do a blu ray release, so for it to happen someone like Netflix or Amazon would have to actually pay for the remaster, in exchange for exclusive streaming rights for a few years. Be a tough sell.
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Old August 19 2014, 06:41 AM   #894
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

A straight upscale would be a mess. A hybrid upscale, where the film is rescanned, but the effects are kept in SD (like the treatment recently afforded for The X-Files) might be a more budgetale solution, although some posters here seem to be suggesting that the SD effects elements don't exist separately from the composited masters?
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Old August 19 2014, 11:23 AM   #895
Salinga
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Some SD material can be effectivly upscaled, for example by unblurring the edges of the upscaled picture.

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Old August 19 2014, 11:35 AM   #896
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Salinga wrote: View Post
Some SD material can be effectivly upscaled, for example by unblurring the edges of the upscaled picture.

That's a good example of why upscaling is a bad idea. That image was tweaked within an inch of its life. It got "repainted", had the lights added in anew, and in the end lost detail because no one working on it noticed. (Where is the "X" shape inside the bay?)
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Old August 19 2014, 01:35 PM   #897
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

FrontierTrek said a while ago that he hoped, at some point, to write an article for Trekcore.com about the issues surrounding a possible rebuild of DS9. If it is written, I imagine it will make for depressing reading. But I hope FT gets to that at some point, for I think it might answer some of the questions we have here, such as:

Is a partial HD redo of DS9 possible or desirable?
(I would guess not.)

Why can't the old CGI assets, many of which survive and were "overbuilt" according to that investigation by Trekcore a couple of years ago, be reused with some touchups to cut the cost of a rebuild?

Has Netflix or Amazon been approached with the idea of helping out on a DS9 rebuild in exchange for exclusive streaming rights in HD?

Would a generous selection of 80 or so episodes of DS9 be more economically viable than all 7 seasons?
(Again, probably not an option, but has it even been considered?)

Is the Star Trek rebuild "dream team" about to disband for the foreseeable future?

How can CBS just leave these hundreds of millions of dollars of top-quality, brand-name, sci fi programming in dreary SD form, when the HD assets are sitting in a salt mine in Pennsylvania?
(I know. It's the money.)

etc.

I do think rebuilds of DS9 and Voyager would become dramatically more marketable if there were to be a NEW Star Trek show set in the PRIME universe. A Star Trek show set in the Prime universe on Netflix or Amazon would allow for guest stars from the casts of DS9, Voyager, and even TNG. And then, suddenly, those shows would become living entities again, rather than part of the "dead past." Of course, as William Faulkner once wrote, "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

Some might wonder whether the Prime universe and the JJA universe can peacefully coexist. Of course they can. JJA's own show Fringe was all about alternate realities. And alternate realities go all through the various Treks, starting with City on the Edge of Forever in 1967. JJA may not like it, but he'll understand. And anyway, he's busy with that other Star franchise.

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Old August 19 2014, 02:30 PM   #898
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

benjaminh wrote: View Post
Is a partial HD redo of DS9 possible or desirable?
(I would guess not.)

Has Netflix or Amazon been approached with the idea of helping out on a DS9 rebuild in exchange for exclusive streaming rights in HD?
My guess is that CBS has decided either we do a full HD restore or not at all. I think there's a question about sales if we're only dealing with a partial restore. Would fans be willing to shell out money for what's basically some HD with SD up-convert.

I know that there's been some interest expressed by netflix in the possibility of producing or at least distributing a new Star Trek show, but I don't know anything about funding HD upgrades for DS9 or VOY. An interesting idea.

Personally I still believe there would be an HD upgrade of DS9 and VOY before a new Trek show. CBS doesn't seem (at this stage) overly interested in bringing Trek back to TV and a HD upgrade is significantly less of an investment.
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Old August 19 2014, 04:38 PM   #899
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

timtonruben359 wrote: View Post

I know that there's been some interest expressed by netflix in the possibility of producing or at least distributing a new Star Trek show...
I think this is wishful thinking by the fan community. I've seen nothing that substantiates the story.
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Old August 19 2014, 04:43 PM   #900
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

BillJ wrote: View Post
timtonruben359 wrote: View Post

I know that there's been some interest expressed by netflix in the possibility of producing or at least distributing a new Star Trek show...
I think this is wishful thinking by the fan community. I've seen nothing that substantiates the story.
According to Larry Nemeck of Trekland, Netflix has made overtures to CBS about Star Trek but nothing has come of them at this point.

http://larrynemecek.blogspot.ca/2014...tflix-cbs.html
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