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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: So what did you think?
Brilliant: Geronimo. 188 77.69%
Very Good: Bow Ties are Cool! 38 15.70%
Ok: Come along Ponds. 10 4.13%
Passable: Fish Fingers and Custard. 5 2.07%
Terrible: Who da man? 1 0.41%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 24 2013, 12:03 AM   #121
Yminale
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Emh wrote: View Post

Billie Piper was quite good as The Moment's personality, nicely quiet and subtle. I guess it helps she wasn't Rose. that being said, I don't see why we needed her back
Fan service plus she helped relaunch Doctor Who.

The Doctor's solution of the duplicates by making them not know which was human and which was Zygon. If only all peace treaties were so easily achieved.
I think that was the point. If we forget all our differences and focus on our similarities we can achieve peace. A little naive but a good message for kids.

A bit fanwanky but it was cool to see that all of The Doctors were involved in making Gallifrey disappear, including a cool, if weird cameo by Capaldi. How all of The Doctors suddenly get involved isn't really explained but I'll let it slide.
I loved his bad-ass thousand yard stare. As for why they all appeared. The moment had the power to break pretty much all the rules of time (it is the ultimate weapon). Perhaps it planned the original timeline so the Doctor could learn from his mistake.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:11 AM   #122
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Yeah, same time as we see the actual regeneration into the Curator - btw surprised nobody picked up on the “wearing a bit thin” line?
Uhh, no, Hurt regenerated into Eccleston. He's a past incarnation of the Doctor, not a future one -- that's the whole point of the story. That's also the point of Hurt's line about hoping his ears would be less prominent -- Eccleston had very prominent ears, and this line ties in with Eccleston's reaction to seeing his ears in the mirror in "Rose."



Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
We are told the Daleks killed themselves completely in the crossfire.
And we know that those events were time locked.
How does that jive with what we learned about the Dalek's fate during Parting of the Ways and Stolen Earth?
So the Time War is STILL time locked, even though it ends differently than we thought?
It ends with the Daleks and Gallifrey both being removed from the universe -- it's just that Gallifrey went somewhere else and only appeared to be blown up.


JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Surely the Doctor will find some way around the limit, but it won't be a given. I suspect Capaldi's Doctor's personality will be shaped by his awareness that he's the last

Eh? he knows he's not - that's the whole point of the scene with Tom Baker.
Hmm, maybe. But if he was crossing his timestream there, who knows if he'll remember it?


Jax wrote: View Post
He may be accpeted as part of them as a 1200 year old + lifespan but he will never truly be one of the Doctor's.
That's not what his later selves said. They said he was more the Doctor than any of them.


zarkon wrote: View Post
I'm more interested in the daleks that weren't blockading Gallifrey. Are they alive now that the moment wasn't used?
There were none. The Time Lord generals said that the Daleks were throwing everything they had at Gallifrey.

See, this doesn't change anything. This is the way things always happened -- it's just that what looked like Gallifrey's destruction was actually its removal to a pocket universe.


The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Well, that was a blast to watch, although at the same time I feel kind of let down. The episode felt like a rush job, we start off with Clara now a school teacher with no explanation of what the hell happened after the cliffhanger scene in Name of the Doctor. That kind of annoyed me.
That wasn't really a cliffhanger. We know the Doctor had arrived to bring Clara home, and we saw them turn and start to walk away. So that problem was essentially solved, even if we weren't shown the payoff.


I've been trying all summer to "correct" people who claim John Hurt is just a replacement because Christopher Eccleston turned things down, feeling that with the way the cliffhanger scene played out they would have had Hurt there anyway, but now I'm not so sure. Yes, Hurt was awesome and perfect for the role but it really kind of felt like it was originally written for Eccleston.
I don't see that. It felt like it was written for this Doctor, an older man who was nonetheless not yet haunted by the guilt of a choice he hadn't made yet. This Doctor was scornful of the others' quirky mannerisms and speech, but Eccleston's Doctor had a similar fast-talking, pop-culture-referencing style. This Doctor was distinctly his own man.


Doesn't this sappy "think of the children" reset button kind of ignore the fact that the Time Lords posed just as much a threat as the Daleks did? For that matter, isn't everything we just saw in The End of Time now undone?
Not necessarily. I don't think it's sappy to want to avoid punishing children for the sins of their leaders. I think that now that Gallifrey is frozen in time in a pocket universe, the Doctor has an opportunity -- and plenty of time --to think of a better way to deal with Rassilon and the corruption of the Council, a way that won't sacrifice the innocent.


And finally, a question. They aren't exactly too clear but is John Hurt's regeneration supposed to be the result of natural causes?
Old age, same as his first regeneration. Hence the reuse of the line "wearing a bit thin."


Pavonis wrote: View Post
Frankly, as nice as it was to get a glimpse of the Time War and a war-ravaged Gallifrey, I was a bit disappointed, too. The mystery of the Time War, fought by "two almighty civilizations" as the Master put it, was that we really couldn't comprehend what that kind of war would be like. But apparently it's just a bunch of Daleks shooting at soldiers. Could've been any war from any era. Took a lot of mystery out of it.
Well, we only saw its final battle. This wasn't a story about the Time War, it was a story about the ending of the war.


Darth_Daver wrote: View Post
- How did the older doctors knew to come, did they use the Moment to break the timeline there as well?
I'd assume that the Doctors, with the help of the Moment/Bad Wolf, contacted their past selves and recruited them to participate in running the computation. Capaldi probably showed up because he remembered these events from his previous life, although the first eleven, Hurt included, no doubt forgot about the event afterward.


Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
And I never thought Eleventh forgot about the Time War... just that he moved on, as all people eventually do when given the space and the time to do so (no pun intended). Sure, its great that he wanted to do that, but really, it was just forced.
If you avoided thinking about something for 400 years, you'd probably be foggy on its details too. It was never said that he'd literally forgotten the whole thing, just that he'd avoided facing the memory for a very long time.


And to me, it undermined completely the Hurt Doctor. Here's the Doctor at his darkest, and when he makes the decision that will haunt him for three more incarnations. At the very least, I was hoping he'd sacrifice himself for his future selfs, so that they and his past selves can save Gallifrey effectively while preventing the Daleks (or anyone else) from finding out the truth of Gallifrey's dissapearence. That way, he could still have a redeeming (for his wartime activities) ending.
He [i]did[]/i] have a redemptive ending. He participated in saving billions of lives. This isn't Battlestar Galactica or Game of Thrones or one of those fashionably dark and dismal franchises. Davies let the show become a little too dark, and I'm glad to see Moffat taking a more optimistic approach, where a hero can redeem his past mistakes without having to die in the process.


His regeneration in his TARDIS doesn't really make sense.
I think it works fine. People close to death often cling to life until some final goal is reached and then seem to let go and die soon thereafter. The War Doctor probably willed himself to keep going until he ended the war, and once that was resolved, he stopped fighting and let himself go.


Its wonderful, until the Zygon threat is dealt with (offscreen, sadly).
It's not offscreen. The Doctors deal with the threat by forcing the Zygons to conduct peace talks with UNIT. Everything after that is just long, dry negotiations which we wouldn't want to have onscreen.


And the absolute fankwank that is all the Doctors around Gallifrey was fantastic (which reminds me, was the First Doctor's dialogue newly recorded material from John Guilor?).
I hope so.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:32 AM   #123
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
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Old November 24 2013, 12:34 AM   #124
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Absolutely loved it! I think the only thing I was disappointed with was 'Rose' not really appearing, but whatever. I need to watch it again.

John Hurt was a real pleasure to watch, as was the Tennant/Smith double act. I was laughing at them one minute, and then transfixed at the more dramatic moments.

Elizabeth I was very funny, and I liked that they picked up the thread that was dangled back during Tennant's reign.

I was a bit concerned at first when the Doctors decided to change the past. Sure it was a terrible event that finally ended the Time War, but it shaped the present day Doctor into the man he became. It was a very important early series arc. I'm just glad that it was played out so well with all the incarnations of the Doctor, and that it means the groundwork is laid for Capaldi to have a Find Gallifrey storyline.

The trailer for the Christmas special tickled me in the right way too.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:36 AM   #125
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Noddy wrote: View Post
Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
Never let continuity get in the way of telling a fun story. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey, much like Abra Cadabra. He's a later Doctor who happens to look like the 4th seemingly.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:36 AM   #126
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Totally fantastic! Really loved it!!
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Old November 24 2013, 12:37 AM   #127
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
Never let continuity get in the way of telling a fun story. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey, much like Abra Cadabra. He's a later Doctor who happens to look like the 4th seemingly.
Is that for sure though?
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Old November 24 2013, 12:39 AM   #128
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

After this I REALLY want to see more of the Hurt and McGann Doctors once the new Doctor is bedded in.

And Donna wasn't in it !

Truly thankful...
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Old November 24 2013, 12:42 AM   #129
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Seven of Five wrote: View Post
I was a bit concerned at first when the Doctors decided to change the past. Sure it was a terrible event that finally ended the Time War, but it shaped the present day Doctor into the man he became.
Only the 11th/12th Doctor remembers what happened. I think part of the explanation is in the end when he has the dream about Gallifrey. Maybe he's always had that dream and only now knows the significance.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:43 AM   #130
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

any thoughts on the theme at the end? A one off or the shape of things to comes?
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Old November 24 2013, 12:44 AM   #131
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Noddy wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
Never let continuity get in the way of telling a fun story. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey, much like Abra Cadabra. He's a later Doctor who happens to look like the 4th seemingly.
Is that for sure though?
You have a greater concern to nail down these things than I do. Earlier, Lonemagpie quoted dialogue from the scene which supports Baker being a later regeneration. It works for me, regardless.

My bad, it was JoeZhang who quoted the dialogue.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:47 AM   #132
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Marc wrote: View Post
any thoughts on the theme at the end?
Things have come full circle. 1st Doctor wanted adventures and was eager to leave Gallifrey. the 12th and 13th Doctors want to come back home.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:48 AM   #133
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Yminale wrote: View Post
Marc wrote: View Post
any thoughts on the theme at the end?
Things have come full circle. 1st Doctor wanted adventures and was eager to leave Gallifrey. the 12th and 13th Doctors want to come back home.

Sorry meant end title theme (music)
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Old November 24 2013, 12:50 AM   #134
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Forgot to mention how awesome it was to see the original opening titles on the bug screen! I just wish they played the whole thing instead of cutting it short.

Also, I have to rewatch the scene again, but it seemed to me we got a glimpse of Eccleston's face during the regeneration, akin to young Hurt in "The Night if the Doctor." But maybe it's just me.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:51 AM   #135
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

chardman wrote: View Post
Loved the "Curator". Made me cry.
Agree.

Brilliant!
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