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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: So what did you think?
Brilliant: Geronimo. 188 77.69%
Very Good: Bow Ties are Cool! 38 15.70%
Ok: Come along Ponds. 10 4.13%
Passable: Fish Fingers and Custard. 5 2.07%
Terrible: Who da man? 1 0.41%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 24 2013, 05:04 AM   #196
Leonardo T. Dragon
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

chelly wrote: View Post
The preshow was bad. The episode was wonderful.
I'm willing to bet no one in that pre-show panel has ever watched a classic Who episode.

As for the special itself, it was poorly plotted with too much slapstick comedy and not enough substance. John Hurt could have been replaced by Paul McGann and it would have made more sense. (Let's not talk about Moffat's cliché prequel.)

As a long-time fan I felt it wasall flash and no real story, just like most of the Moffat "big event" episodes. (Let's Kill Hitler, Pandorica, Wedding of River Song)
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Old November 24 2013, 05:14 AM   #197
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Australis wrote: View Post
Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Oh fuck- watch the Five-ish Doctors on Red Button, and then re-watch Day Of The Doctor...
And if you can't get Red Button?
The episode is up on the BBC website and it's not geo-locked. I just watched it and I'm not in the UK, either.
Ahhhhhhh, thank you for that! Very much appreciated!

More thoughts on it all soon.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:20 AM   #198
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I enjoyed it in the moment. I went to a Doctor Who viewing party in Baltimore, and there were about 100 people there in a make-shift theater. Moffat's Who is tailor-made to be watched with a crowd. It makes for a good communal activity.

When I stopped to think about it, it falls apart.

There are some interesting implications to the story. It cleverly rewrites the RTD era by rewriting the assumptions of the era but leaving the text itself intact.

But on a narrative level, it was setpieces in search of a plot. The Zygon plot existed long enough to function as a MacGuffin and was then dismissed for the real meat of the story -- the Doctor's culpability for the Time War. (That's not unusual for Moffat; the Daleks were important in "Asylum of the Daleks" to the extent that they let Amy and Rory's relationship problems play out.) The tenth Doctor had no significant narrative function that I could discern except to be part of the MacGuffin.

I guess the "present" in the 2020s, which means that Clara is from the 2020s. Either that, or she's older.

Hurt's Doctor could have been Eccleston or McGann. I defended the casting of Hurt as an unknown incarnation of the Doctor, but in execution this felt like an excuse to cast a name actor as the Doctor. And I was disappointed by the regeneration at the end, though dialogue suggests there's about 100 years between that event and "Rose," and I'm fine with that.

The real crime was how the story absolved the Doctor of the guilt for using the Moment, but then making him forget that he didn't so he carried that guilt for 400 years. Hurt's Doctor got to be acknowledged as the Doctor, yet he promptly forgets this fact and his subsequent incarnations see him as anathema. Moffat gives us a warm-fuzzy ending then yanks it away. The story doesn't have the courage of its own convictions.

In the final analysis, except for a few throwaway moments, this was largely a culmination of Doctor Who post-2005, as it resolved a number of outstanding issues from the past eight and half years.

Moffat did what he does best -- he delivered popcorn entertainment. And when consumed as popcorn, like Brannon Braga's best Star Trek work, it went down fine. It's when you stop and think about what you've eaten that you start to wonder what it is you've eaten and you have second thoughts.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:23 AM   #199
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Tennant says he's 904. The End of Time implies his fling with Liz I was in between Waters of Mars and The End of Time, and he does tell Wilf in TEOT he's 906.

Maybe there's two years between Waters of Mars and End of Time? RTD's original intention was for a much longer gap to be between the two specials.
I'm with Pavonis on this -- the Doctor's age has never been stated consistently. Heck, the Seventh Doctor was supposed to be 953, but then the Ninth came along and claimed to be 900. And he was inconsistent about whether that was how old he was or how long he'd been traveling.

Here's a hypothesis: The first eight Doctors counted their age by how long they'd lived, but the post-War Doctors -- the ones who considered the Hurt incarnation to be not a Doctor at all -- decided instead to count their age on the basis of how many years they'd spent as the Doctor. Maybe he didn't adopt that title -- make that promise -- until he was already a century or two old, so that's why Nine's count was lower than Seven's.

Still, a time traveller's measure of time is bound to be a little erratic -- especially considering that different planets have different year lengths.


The Wormhole wrote: View Post
It's implied in The Bells of St John she had practically no computer skills, and teachers these days need to be experts with computers. Hell, were she attending university within the past five years she'd need to practically be a computer expert.
Except that in that very episode, she got computer expertise uploaded into her brain, and there was no indication that she lost it.


Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Well, the Sonic Screwdriver knows there was four centuries between Hurt and Smith. So there's that.
Not specifically. We only know that the program needed "centuries" to run -- it was never specified how many centuries. For all we know, it finished running a hundred years before "Chinny" thought to check for it.


Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
So, how long until the Doctor clears out UNIT's Black Archive? There's no way he would allow UNIT to hold all of that, especially after Kate attempted to nuke London because of it.
By the way, I'd forgotten that the Black Archive was actually introduced in The Sarah Jane Adventures. Nice to get a nod to that spinoff. (Not sure whether to count Jack's vortex manipulator as a Torchwood nod, since it was introduced in DW and mostly used there.)

Speaking of which, unless the nuclear device beneath the Tower of London were stupidly overpowered, an underground nuclear detonation would not destroy the city. All UNIT needs is something to vaporize the Black Archive and cause the Tower to implode into the hole. A low-yield bunker buster would suffice.
It'd suffice to collapse the Tower, but we're talking about a room full of advanced alien technologies that might be able to brush off a low-yield nuke with minimal damage.

Leonardo T. Dragon wrote: View Post
I'm willing to bet no one in that pre-show panel has ever watched a classic Who episode.
You'd lose that bet. Here's an interview with Grant Imahara wherein he says he began watching with Tom Baker and initially "resisted the reboot," though he now considers Tennant his favorite Doctor.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:34 AM   #200
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
So, how long until the Doctor clears out UNIT's Black Archive? There's no way he would allow UNIT to hold all of that, especially after Kate attempted to nuke London because of it.

Speaking of which, unless the nuclear device beneath the Tower of London were stupidly overpowered, an underground nuclear detonation would not destroy the city. All UNIT needs is something to vaporize the Black Archive and cause the Tower to implode into the hole. A low-yield bunker buster would suffice.

Maybe they felt a high-powered warhead was necessary to "make sure" everything in the archive was destroyed.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:53 AM   #201
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Do you know what I want? I want that final image of all 12 Doctors standing in formation as my wallpaper.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:00 AM   #202
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

It's nice that there's now a way for The Master to appear again, though what are the chances he's now Lord President of the High Council of Time Lords by now?
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Old November 24 2013, 06:00 AM   #203
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Thought it was pretty damn fantastic... although I admit on first viewing I did grow a bit antsy over all the time devoted to the Zygon/Queen Elizabeth/UNIT storylines. It was decent stuff, but somehow felt a bit too routine for a 50th special, and didn't really grab me as much as the main Doctor storyline.

But the scenes between the Doctors were so damn good (with so many hilarious lines), and the resolution so damn thrilling, that it more than made for anything else. And I suspect knowing better how it all fits together, I'll be able to enjoy the story as a whole much more on repeat viewings.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:01 AM   #204
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Dear Mr. Moffat,

In light of the events of the last 24 hours you are hereby forgiven for the past four years.

Warmest regards,
The Fans
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Old November 24 2013, 06:05 AM   #205
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I liked Bad Wolf/Rose. I liked how Bad Wolf brought Hurt's Doctor together with his future so that he could see what he would become if he went through with the using the Moment, and she brought the future Doctors back so that they could find a way.
Funny. I'd thought that was all actually the Moment, and that the Bad Wolf thing was just a pointless namedrop. Rewatching her first scene, with the eyelash, I think I've come around to your interpretation.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:34 AM   #206
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

All I know is its going to take me a few days and several re-viewings in order to wrap my brain around all that.

I admit I am feeling a dose of dissapointment. But I put that down to the fact that after all these months of anticipation, its over.

I do know my friend Cindy will be pleased. She was always raqther annoyed by Tens swaggering around, going on about how he bonked the Queen. Now at least we know it was the usual unintentional mess.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:41 AM   #207
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

ATimson wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I liked Bad Wolf/Rose. I liked how Bad Wolf brought Hurt's Doctor together with his future so that he could see what he would become if he went through with the using the Moment, and she brought the future Doctors back so that they could find a way.
Funny. I'd thought that was all actually the Moment, and that the Bad Wolf thing was just a pointless namedrop. Rewatching her first scene, with the eyelash, I think I've come around to your interpretation.
When I think about it, I realize its a lot more than that. From Eccelston through to Smith, The Doctor has been stumbling into, learning and picking up pieces of the puzzle that all combined to make saving Galifrey possible.

Eccelston's accidental creation of Rose/Bad Wolf is just one part of it. Another part is Tennant's Doctor learning that time can be re-written for the first time in in The Water of Mars. Smith's Doctor eventually extended that and figured out how to rewrite fixed points by retaining the fixed point but subtly altering the perceived outcome in The Wedding of River Song.

All these factors combined to create the solution that allowed the universe to think that Time Lords and Daleks were both destroyed but secretly kept Time Lords Time-Locked in a pocket universe.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:50 AM   #208
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

I don't have a lot to add, but my son and I just finished it and we both loved it.

Did anyone else get a little "All Good Things..." vibe?

Lots of fun!
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Old November 24 2013, 06:55 AM   #209
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

So, what happened to The Moment? It's still out there, and that Bad Wolf is coming back. Again.
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Old November 24 2013, 07:00 AM   #210
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

I think the most interesting bit was when Tom Baker essentially told the audience to expect more classic Doctors in the upcoming seasons. I bet that Capaldi rounds the up in the next season to recruit them for the freezing of Gallifrey. We could get an episode with each of the surviving Doctors.
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