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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 21 2013, 12:07 PM   #31
Cara007
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

teacake wrote: View Post
I love how Nimoy plays Prime Spock, you can see the TOS Spock we knew and loved as a very chilled out and wise dude.
Yes I agree as well. Watching Prime Spock in NUTREK is like watching a science fiction version of the wizards: Dumbledore and Gandalf. They have the wise grey hair old man thing going on.
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Old November 21 2013, 12:20 PM   #32
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

Too bad this will never happen to Picard since he is bald. He'll just shrivel up until he looks like a baked in the sun cue ball.
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Old November 21 2013, 01:24 PM   #33
Lance
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

Maybe Picard could take to wearing a 'Gandalf Hat™'? That could only add to his wisdom.

I could imagine Patrick Stewart in a hat. Sitting in that chair, on that bridge, in a nice pointy hat.
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Old November 21 2013, 01:46 PM   #34
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post
Eh, the only thing I didn't like about NuSpock's emotions was in the 09 movie where he went berserk every time someone trotted out a yo mama joke. Beyond that... I always thought Spock... Nimoy or Quinto... was just plain overrated. Logical smart person, with the whole fish out of water perspective on humanity, but overall rather bland. The McCoy/Spock arguments were nice though.
I have to defend Spock here and the rest of Star Trek.
If you think Spock is bland, what about most of the TNG cast or the ENT cast or VOY when it comes to that?

And nuSpock only went insane once with mention of his Mother. The other time he went pyscho was when Kirk mutinied.
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Old November 21 2013, 01:50 PM   #35
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

It's shocking but I'm thinking that R.Star doesn't deserve Star Trek after his terrible words.
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Old November 21 2013, 02:38 PM   #36
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

teacake wrote: View Post
It's shocking but I'm thinking that R.Star doesn't deserve Star Trek after his terrible words.
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Eh, the only thing I didn't like about NuSpock's emotions was in the 09 movie where he went berserk every time someone trotted out a yo mama joke. Beyond that... I always thought Spock... Nimoy or Quinto... was just plain overrated. Logical smart person, with the whole fish out of water perspective on humanity, but overall rather bland. The McCoy/Spock arguments were nice though.
I have to defend Spock here and the rest of Star Trek.
If you think Spock is bland, what about most of the TNG cast or the ENT cast or VOY when it comes to that?

And nuSpock only went insane once with mention of his Mother. The other time he went pyscho was when Kirk mutinied.
So I guess screaming and beating someone down in a violent rage as a child doesn't count? Though, I'll concede, though not going berserk, marooning a prisoner on a dangerous planet is a bit much too. Even if you didn't have a brig for some reason, though the next movie showed they did.

I do love the assumptions that if I don't agree with the majority I simply don't deserve it, get it or what not.

But to your question. Fine. The biggest flaw of the TNG cast is they were too sterilized, too perfect with too little conflict among themselves. Still enjoyed them more than TOS and Data, the most obvious equivalent was way more interesting to me. ENT... well I've written entire essays over on the ENT forum as to how screwed up this group is. So Spock will beat out T'Pol, but that's no great statement. VOY... whatever other flaws the series had, the crew being boring(with the exception of Kim anyways) wasn't one of them. Seven and the Doctor would be his equivalent and both were easily the two best characters in the series.

So yes, I think Spock is simply overrated. That doesn't mean I think he was bad or anything, just jazzed up beyond belief. But like what you want. Certainly I'd hate to commit heresy against the religion of Trek, even if I never converted. Though I guess as a religion Trek would be as flawed and inconsistent as the rest of them, so it's in good company.
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Old November 21 2013, 03:37 PM   #37
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post
Eh, the only thing I didn't like about NuSpock's emotions was in the 09 movie where he went berserk every time someone trotted out a yo mama joke. Beyond that... I always thought Spock... Nimoy or Quinto... was just plain overrated. Logical smart person, with the whole fish out of water perspective on humanity, but overall rather bland. The McCoy/Spock arguments were nice though.
Yo mama so human she....
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Old November 21 2013, 03:50 PM   #38
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

I love him in all his incarnations.
In the reboot he's the character that I find the most interesting and he's perhaps the more layered.
He surely is the character I'd have more fun writing if I were a writer.

The only scene where I thought he was OOC is the one where he cried and shouted "khan".
That was over the top and way too forced and the reason number one why some iconic scenes cannot simply be reversed and rewritten to fit a reboot with characters that had just meet each other.
I do get that the scene was more like the last straw that broke the camel's back for him so it's not like his reaction was without context and unique circumstances. He never really grieved for his mother and home planet and his PTSD is heavily hinted in the comics too where Uhura herself is worried about him and him seemingly having a death wish. The comics make her reaction in the movie all the more understandable and I honestly think he needed that argument. Without that scene between them, we would never get inside his psyche that way as she was the only person with whom he could open up in that moment. His speech in the ship on the way to kronos proved that the destruction of vulcan and the death of his mother weren't of no consequence and I like the nod to a recurring theme that is the fact that unlike what it looks from the outside the vulcans actually feel more than the humans (the message of what he told Uhura basically was that he cares/feels too much and that's the reason why he needs control )
So back to Kirk's death it probably was the last straw and from this perspective it makes sense for him to have a stronger reaction than he'd have under different circumstances. Plus I think that Spock felt extra sorry for Kirk because the latter had saved him at the beginning and he had been a tad ungrateful with him b/c he didn't even get why the captain was his friend... and then in the end Kirk sacrifices himself to save everyone and Spock cannot save his life back, there is nothing he can do to help him.

That said, it still feels forced for him to cry and scream like that for someone that just minutes ago he wouldn't even really consider a friend. He didn't cry not even when his mother died and his home planet got destroyed. It's his reaction when Amanda died that shows you how he reacts to this kind of things. Just watch the scene where he and the other vulcans appear on the pad and he just looks at the pad where his mother should have been. Looking at him (and Sarek too. His reaction all the more subtle but it's there) you just know that the image of his mother looking at him before she fell to her death will taunt him forever.
The only moment where he shows his grief in a more almost conventional human way is when he's alone with Uhura and for a moment it seems like he's about to cry on her shoulder but his pain and grief remains dignified just like his resolve to not completely succumb to it.
It just made his grief all the more obvious and thus it makes those scenes more emotional.


borgboy wrote: View Post
I'm watching season on of TOS now, and I think Spock shows emotions in very subtle ways here and there.
NuSpock in the movies has had huge emotion events to react to. Losing his mother, the Vulcan home world, an early reconciliation with Sarek, being in love with Uhura, Kirk's near death...also, in the format of movies vs tv series, things have to move quickly, there's no time to develop things slowly the way a tv series could.
I would speculate that his reconciliation with Sarek after their devestating losses freed him up to be more true to himself and not repress his human emotions as severely as he did originally. Uhura probably helps bring these qualities out in them too.
I've loved Quinto's Spock, I have no issues with his characterization or growth.

Agree.

TOS had always been mainly the Kirk's show and while Spock was a very prominent character, there is a lot about him that was underdeveloped/underutilized.. a lot about him we don't really know.
Giving him personal arcs that are not connected to the friendship with Kirk ( like a girlfriend, the death of his mother and the vulcan's destruction) makes it possible for the writers to get inside Spock's psyche and develop him as co-protagonist with Kirk rather than just the nerdy friend of hero, so to speak.
Had Spock Prime been a true co-protagonist as well, we'd probably see more of him too (I'm not talking about just the screentime here but the way it's used and why)



teacake wrote: View Post
And dawwww.... little non-canon deleted Spock I love him too!



I wonder if that was a real baby.

Imagine if you could grow up and say, "I played Spock in a Star Trek movie".
it was a real baby and he actually was a little girl
baby Spock is truly adorable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXKiGZzGtSs

best line:
vulcan lady: the baby is healthy why does the mother cry?
older vulcan lady: she's human.
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Old November 21 2013, 03:53 PM   #39
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post

So I guess screaming and beating someone down in a violent rage as a child doesn't count? Though, I'll concede, though not going berserk, marooning a prisoner on a dangerous planet is a bit much too. Even if you didn't have a brig for some reason, though the next movie showed they did.

I do love the assumptions that if I don't agree with the majority I simply don't deserve it, get it or what not.
I disagree with you because I think you are wrong. I genuinely believe Spock is not a dull character.

If you choose to believe that Data is superior and way more interesting and deep then that's your right.

I still believe that Chakotay and Paris and Neelix are dull dull dull. I still like Chakotay but he's not all that interesting IMO.

I'll concede the incident as a child on reflection. Those bullies were looking for a fight so it didn't really matter what was said - there was going to be a fight anyway. But the final straw was the whore comment so I'll admit I was wrong (about this one thing).

And the penalty for mutiny in TOS was summary execution. So Kirk got off lucky.

Last edited by Commishsleer; November 21 2013 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Reading back I thought I sounded rude
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Old November 21 2013, 04:09 PM   #40
R. Star
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

So I guess screaming and beating someone down in a violent rage as a child doesn't count? Though, I'll concede, though not going berserk, marooning a prisoner on a dangerous planet is a bit much too. Even if you didn't have a brig for some reason, though the next movie showed they did.

I do love the assumptions that if I don't agree with the majority I simply don't deserve it, get it or what not.
I disagree with you because I think you are wrong. I genuinely believe Spock is not a dull character.

If you choose to believe that Data is superior and way more interesting and deep then that's your right. I'm not seeking to oppress you
I still believe that Chakotay and Paris and Neelix are dull dull dull. I still like Chakotay but he's not all that interesting IMO.

I'll concede the incident as a child on reflection. Those bullies were looking for a fight so it didn't really matter what was said - there was going to be a fight anyway. But the final straw was the whore comment so I'll admit I was wrong (about this one thing).

And the penalty for mutiny in TOS was summary execution. So Kirk got off lucky.
When you're arguing personal tastes, labels of right and wrong really don't apply.

You like Spock, I think he's average at best. We can argue yourselves in a circle on that one all day just as much as two kids arguing over their favorite color!

The kiddie fight... I think Spock took it to a higher level than they did. Logical beings all around though... a left over remnant of Evil Vulcan Syndrome maybe?

Chakotay... yeah he was dull most of the time. Pity we didn't get the Chakotay from the pilot for the whole series. Neelix wasn't dull, he was just an annoying jerk. Paris I liked, but he got way too Mary Sueish at times. Data's my favorite TNG character. He was the outsider to humanity too, but his kindness and curiosity both seemed so genuine and shined through for me.

Pft, the whole escape podding Kirk thing was probably written off in the log as a mission to retrieve NuSpock if not just overlooked altogether. Sulu and Kirk both were rather cavalier with comm malfunctions and what not.
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Old November 21 2013, 04:16 PM   #41
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post
So I guess screaming and beating someone down in a violent rage as a child doesn't count?
Since that incident and others like it were mentioned in TOS (Journey to Babel) and in TAS (Tomorrow is Yesterday), it was canon before we saw it on the big screen in 2009.


R. Star wrote: View Post
Though, I'll concede, though not going berserk, marooning a prisoner on a dangerous planet is a bit much too. Even if you didn't have a brig for some reason, though the next movie showed they did.
Since Kirk in TOS marooned not only Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", but Marla Mitchell, also in "Spaceseed" it was established that the Captain of the ship has wide latitude in how he deals with mutineers. Treatment of prisoners was obviously left up to the Captain's discretion.


R. Star wrote: View Post
But to your question. Fine. The biggest flaw of the TNG cast is they were too sterilized, too perfect with too little conflict among themselves. Still enjoyed them more than TOS and Data, the most obvious equivalent was way more interesting to me. ENT... well I've written entire essays over on the ENT forum as to how screwed up this group is. So Spock will beat out T'Pol, but that's no great statement. VOY... whatever other flaws the series had, the crew being boring(with the exception of Kim anyways) wasn't one of them. Seven and the Doctor would be his equivalent and both were easily the two best characters in the series.

So yes, I think Spock is simply overrated. That doesn't mean I think he was bad or anything, just jazzed up beyond belief. But like what you want. Certainly I'd hate to commit heresy against the religion of Trek, even if I never converted. Though I guess as a religion Trek would be as flawed and inconsistent as the rest of them, so it's in good company.
So basically you admit that you are not as fond of TOS as you are of other Treks. . . is it any wonder that the flaws in a series of movies that hark back to TOS (not the original series movies, but the original series itself) would be more pronounced to you?

Personally, I love Quinto's Spock. Quinto does more emoting with his eyes than most actors do with their whole bodies. Even when he is perfectly still, you can see an inner life to his Spock.


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Old November 21 2013, 08:12 PM   #42
M'Sharak
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
It's shocking but I'm thinking that R.Star doesn't deserve Star Trek after his terrible words.
...

I do love the assumptions that if I don't agree with the majority I simply don't deserve it, get it or what not.
That was a joke, not an assumption.

Also: You can drop the worn-out "if I don't agree with the majority" shtick any time. Your opinion is your opinion. So own it, and stop trying to guilt-trip others for holding opinions of their own - that just looks whiny and sort of pathetic.
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Old November 22 2013, 01:50 AM   #43
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

R. Star wrote: View Post
I do love the assumptions that if I don't agree with the majority I simply don't deserve it, get it or what not.
People do occasionally make tongue-in-cheek remarks, I'm told. Though it is... highly illogical.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:05 AM   #44
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

Nimoy's Spock is better, but then he had a LOT more screentime in which to develop the character.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:33 AM   #45
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Re: Quinto's Spock is too emotional

Yes it was a tongue in cheek joke poking not just at you R. Star but at the hyperbole that accompanies Trek loves. Of which I happily participate in myself.
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