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Old August 19 2014, 06:26 PM   #1
Saginaw
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Size of the S.S. Aurora?

I'm curious as to the possible size of the remastered S.S. Aurora that was seen in the episode 'The Way to Eden'. Any ideas? Thanks!


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Old August 19 2014, 10:37 PM   #2
Wingsley
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Has anyone ever drawn any schematics or made any 3D art of the remastered Aurora?
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Old August 19 2014, 11:00 PM   #3
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

I think Okuda or someone once stated that the design was meant to invoke the '60's hippy VW bus, so it's probably not larger than that. The round windows seem to be a dead giveaway as to size, if those windows are meant to have one seat for each window.
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Old August 20 2014, 01:11 AM   #4
Saginaw
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Wingsley wrote: View Post
Has anyone ever drawn any schematics or made any 3D art of the remastered Aurora?
I found one at the Ex Astris Scientia website. It's in the very first entry:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...ther_ships.htm

Dukhat wrote: View Post
I think Okuda or someone once stated that the design was meant to invoke the '60's hippy VW bus, so it's probably not larger than that. The round windows seem to be a dead giveaway as to size, if those windows are meant to have one seat for each window.
Wow! That's a LOT smaller than what I thought! I figured that it would be at least 100'/30m long to accomodate a small but adequate engineering section. Interesting.


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Old August 20 2014, 07:39 AM   #5
Avro Arrow
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

OK, forgive me, I was bored and I wanted to try my hand at this, since I hadn't really done something like this before.

I could really see this ship as being the 'runabout' of the 23rd century. That said, if we were to scale the main body of this ship to the Danube class (23 m long, according to Ex Astris Scientia... and I hope it's right, because I didn't verify it anywhere else! ) then the J class comes out at about 32 m long, which is right around Saginaw's minimum expectation. At this scale, it looks like there's probably enough room for two decks in the front part of the ship (justifying the two rows of windows), and it would narrow down to a single deck in the aft section.



I think the comparisons to the VW bus can only be taken figuratively, since if we scale the body of the ship to match the bus, the ship comes in right around 6 m, and it looks way too small to accommodate Sevrin's group. (Granted, you could probably try to scale it such that the largest part of the main body, say from just aft of the front of the ship to about where the front of the nacelles are, matched the size of the bus, and you might have better results, but I'll leave that to someone else to try! )

So, yeah, I guess I'm more in the 30-ish metre camp, but I assume someone will point out why this doesn't make sense at all!

Image credits: The Danube and the J Class are from Ex Astris Scientia. The VW bus was found from a Google image search and is from a site called behance.net. The person icon was also found from an image search, and is from calacademy.org, but has been recoloured. (It is scaled to represent a 183 cm (6 ft) tall person.) I believe based on what I have used them for here, they should be covered under fair use, but if anyone disagrees, let me know, and I can take the image down. And my apologies if I have made any calculation errors!
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Old August 20 2014, 09:29 AM   #6
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

I'd imagine its interior space is about the size of a 6-10 passenger private jet, but with more headroom. It's referred to as a cruiser, so it might have sleeping cabins.
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Old August 20 2014, 11:54 AM   #7
Robert Comsol
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
So, yeah, I guess I'm more in the 30-ish metre camp, but I assume someone will point out why this doesn't make sense at all!
On the contrary, I find the 2-window row argument rather convincing, BUT...

When I read the thread title I hoped we'd be discussing the "real" S.S. Aurora.

Bob
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Old August 20 2014, 12:30 PM   #8
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
.

When I read the thread title I hoped we'd be discussing the "real" S.S. Aurora.

Bob
The original (none of it's real!) Aurora was blueprinted by Todd Gunther in the early 80's. He worked out a length of 21.10m. Not totally sure, but I think they're online at www.cygnus-x1.net.

It would have been cool to see either of the Auroras among the sky traffic on Earth in ID.
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Old August 20 2014, 12:32 PM   #9
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

It's in the way that you use it

There's no :singing: smilie, sorry.
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Old August 20 2014, 01:06 PM   #10
Robert Comsol
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
The original (none of it's real!) Aurora was blueprinted by Todd Gunther in the early 80's. He worked out a length of 21.10m. Not totally sure, but I think they're online at www.cygnus-x1.net.
I know, that's why I put these " "

I do have these conjectural plans myself, but the warp nacelles are obviously inaccurate (which might be attributed to a lack of better reference materials available to Todd Guenther, then).

The available HD screencap reveals the warp nacelles to have sensor dishes (AMT Enterprise model kit) at the front of the nacelles, instead of just two "intercoolers" there seem to be six of those attached to the Aurora's warp nacelles while the stern of the nacelles is somewhat "flat".

I wonder if the proportions between the main body (reuse of Tholian vessel) and the nacelles could suggest a different conjectural size for the original Aurora.

The way it looks to me the vessel could land using its nacelle pylons as landing pads, depending which side view drawing is the more accurate.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; August 20 2014 at 01:19 PM.
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Old August 20 2014, 02:46 PM   #11
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
I think the comparisons to the VW bus can only be taken figuratively
No doubt, but the scale of the human figure relative to the VW bus is off in your drawing. The "hippie van" (Volkswagen Type 2) is 2.040 meters tall according to Wiki whether T1 or T2, which should be noticeably taller than your 1.83 meters person.
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Old August 20 2014, 04:49 PM   #12
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

I probably misspoke when I equated the homage to the VW bus with the size of the VW bus. The 30 meter ship definitely seems more accurate, especially if the two rows of windows are meant to be two decks on the ship.
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Old August 21 2014, 05:57 AM   #13
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
OK, forgive me, I was bored and I wanted to try my hand at this, since I hadn't really done something like this before.

I could really see this ship as being the 'runabout' of the 23rd century. That said, if we were to scale the main body of this ship to the Danube class (23 m long, according to Ex Astris Scientia... and I hope it's right, because I didn't verify it anywhere else! ) then the J class comes out at about 32 m long, which is right around Saginaw's minimum expectation. At this scale, it looks like there's probably enough room for two decks in the front part of the ship (justifying the two rows of windows), and it would narrow down to a single deck in the aft section.



I think the comparisons to the VW bus can only be taken figuratively, since if we scale the body of the ship to match the bus, the ship comes in right around 6 m, and it looks way too small to accommodate Sevrin's group. (Granted, you could probably try to scale it such that the largest part of the main body, say from just aft of the front of the ship to about where the front of the nacelles are, matched the size of the bus, and you might have better results, but I'll leave that to someone else to try! )

So, yeah, I guess I'm more in the 30-ish metre camp, but I assume someone will point out why this doesn't make sense at all!

Image credits: The Danube and the J Class are from Ex Astris Scientia. The VW bus was found from a Google image search and is from a site called behance.net. The person icon was also found from an image search, and is from calacademy.org, but has been recoloured. (It is scaled to represent a 183 cm (6 ft) tall person.) I believe based on what I have used them for here, they should be covered under fair use, but if anyone disagrees, let me know, and I can take the image down. And my apologies if I have made any calculation errors!


Mant thanks to Avro Arrow for posting this comparison image. Probably the most plausible conjecture I've seen.

The Memory Alpha article on the "remastered" Aurora states some interesting notions as well…

An explanation of the strange original version look of the Aurora was attempted in the Star Trek Maps, which stated:

"Space cruisers like the S.S. Aurora have been in use for over a century, and are based on a Vulcan design originally used for interplanetary travel. Essentially a 21-meter-long space yacht, space cruisers have a range of several dozen parsecs and can carry provisions for up to six passengers and crew."
The diagram, appearing on Chart B, depicts the Aurora with a registry of NCC-C1200, and a nacelle-style more akin to those found on a Class F shuttlecraft.
FWIW, I see a "space cruiser" (or "yacht") as being large enough to accommodate a crew of at least six for a limited deep-space voyage. A voyage would mean the crew would be away from its home planet (or space station, or mothership) for days at a time. The ship is obviously larger and more capable than a Starfleet Class F shuttlecraft, and is probably capable of more extended durations in space. Since Space Cruiser Aurora gave chase to a Class I Heavy Star Cruiser, we can assume she has (at least some) smoke. Faster than a typically-outfitted Class F Shuttlecraft? Probably. (At least, Aurora must've been to make Enterprise sweat)

One interesting thing to note is that she might fit into the main Constitution-class landing bay, but would probably not fit through the turntable to the storage hangar below. So if a Connie carried a "kit" to make one of these ships, it would most likely have to be assembled in that main landing bay, not the below-deck hangar. (It could be suspended above the landing bay floor to avoid impeding launching and recovery of other craft; imagine a kind of drydock arrangement hanging from the bay's ceiling.) So, in theory, a Federation starship might be able to "hangar" such a vessel, but would not typically house or deploy one of more of these craft. So, that would be a major difference between starships and "Runabouts" of the 23rd vs. 24th centuries.

In order to be the kind of craft I'm describing, a 32-meter Aurora would have to house the following facilities within her hull:
  • crew living area
  • cockpit/"bridge"
  • airlocks for EVA/disembarkation on planet surfaces
  • food/supplies storage
  • computer(s)
  • engine room?
  • subspace transmitters, scanner/sensors
  • restroom/lavatory
  • sleeping facilities
  • equipment & space suit storage
  • possible planetfall gear, in the event of engine failure (vehicular parachutes, etc.)

I'd say the Runabout analogy would be about right for a TNG frame of mind. A closer TOS-era analogy might be the Jupiter II (or SPACE:1999's Eagles). In a TMP-era frame of mind, she might be more like a primitive scout, like a crude first attempt at a Klingon Bird of Prey.

Note the seam running down the length of the main hull. I wonder if it would be possible for a ship of that size to have separation capability, with the lower half able to "drop away" from orbit and land while the upper half remains in orbit to goes on to other tasks, Apollo moon mission style. (Or perhaps the front section of the hull is the "mission module" that separates, leaving the aft section (engineering?) in orbit with the nacelles. If so, the aft separation line would probably be just behind the aft-most windows.
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Old August 21 2014, 07:31 AM   #14
Avro Arrow
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
I think the comparisons to the VW bus can only be taken figuratively
No doubt, but the scale of the human figure relative to the VW bus is off in your drawing. The "hippie van" (Volkswagen Type 2) is 2.040 meters tall according to Wiki whether T1 or T2, which should be noticeably taller than your 1.83 meters person.
It's entirely possible I've messed something up there. I got the bus measurements from bustopia.com. I will freely admit that I don't know enough about VW buses to be able to differentiate the models, but in looking over their chart, the heights seem to range from about 192 cm to 195 cm. I'm not sure why they are different than the height Wikipedia provides? But at any rate, at that scale the van should either be 1 or 2 pixels taller than the person, but in the image they are the same.
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Old August 22 2014, 02:21 PM   #15
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Re: Size of the S.S. Aurora?

The Space Hippie vessel not only has two rows of windows, but also a suggestion of people behind those windows: the bow porthole seems to feature two people standing up, one in red clothing, and the upper side portholes appear to have a railing running along the lower edge. The lower side portholes also have this railing, which appears to kink down towards the stern, perhaps suggesting there's an entry ramp there.

That'd probably double the size of the vessel to at least 60 meters, leaving plenty of room for machinery...

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