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Old November 25 2013, 02:54 PM   #76
2takesfrakes
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Saganistheman wrote: View Post
... the path I have chosen has to do with TNG movies and the DS9 and Voyager series. Do any of the TNG movies overlap anything in the DS9 or Voyager series? Is my timeline order the way in needs to be?
TNG movies definitely overlap DS9, causing Worf's presence on the ENTERPRISE to be difficult to explain, at best, in the latter features. My advice:

Focus on The Next Generation and pepper your TNG experience with occassional viewings from the rest of the francise. TNG has Gene Roddenberry's stamp all over it and is the standard by which I judge the other series ...

The last 2 seasons of ENTERPRISE, though, have several episodes which I deem worthy of the STAR TREK legacy and hold up as excellent entertainment very well, on their own.
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Old November 25 2013, 08:15 PM   #77
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Troi's hair just made her head look rounder, that's all. She looked fine. Riker never changes. He always looks like what you'd picture a STARFLEET officer looking like. He did kiss Hologram T'Pol, that's true. But come on ... outside of Trip's death, there is nothing to nitpick in this episode. I particularly love how layered this episode is. The focus on the guest stars - Frakes and Siritis - is particularly effective. In fact, by having TNG's era reflecting on ENT's era is just another layer that adds to the ... to the texture ... to the flavour of this episode. And you know what else? I'll even go out on a line here, and say that even someone entirely new to STAR TREK would find this episode as satisfying as I have. A fan is something else ... too much critique involved. Not enough objectivity. On its own terms, TATV is solid entertainment and stands up nicely against some of the best STAR TREK that's out there.
Seriously, are you trolling us?
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Old November 25 2013, 10:49 PM   #78
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I'm the one who's taken aback that this episode is really that despised! It's really not half bad! If you took out Trip's death, ENTERPRISE's final episode would've ranked among my top ten episodes in all of STAR TREK. I think the reason it catches a lot of flak is because it's a crossover episode. And I'll admit, in general, I'm not fond of those. The one where Scotty comes back after being trapped in a transporter circut for a hundred years was particularly atrocious. TATV does not fall into that category. I've already stated my reasons for liking the episode and this thread is about ENTERPRISE episodes we call our favourites ... so ... be assured, gblews, that my intentions were only honest and sincere.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:44 AM   #79
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I think TATV may well be the most actively hated episode in all of Trek. Sure there are worse episodes, you'd be hard pressed to make a defense of The Alternative Factor or Code of Honor (which Frakes called "a racist piece of shit"). But these were just awful drek, they weren't a slap in the face, an insult to those who loved Enterprise. People always hate on a finale that fails to deliver or is seen to have betrayed the show itself which is definitely how TATV is viewed by many.

If they had plopped it into the middle of Season 4 without killing Trip it would have been a quirky, if annoying, interruption of Enterprise and that would be it. Making it the finale was a huge mistake.
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Old November 26 2013, 11:28 AM   #80
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I suppose I can understand fan feelings a little more, when put in that light. In any case, I'm a STAR TREK fan, whereas Jonathan Frakes views it more as a job, like Shatner does. Also, even individual opinions change.

Director Stephen Spielberg's JAWS featured a creature that would kill and eat characters you didn't necessarily want eaten, like an innocent kid - and the story's believability benefitted. By the time he got to LOST WORLD, nobody can use a gun to any positive effect, because he's gone all Liberal, and the beasties only chomp primarily on evil Capitalists and the kids around never get ate.

That's not to say that I dismiss Frakes, I certainly value his contributions to the franchise, but I also know its his job to be entertaining in interviews. Interviews with movie stars are often about as informative as interviews with athletes and coaches ...
"We missed some plays, but we just have to go back and look at our strategy and do what we have to do, put some points on the board and start winning games." The press just wants some sound bytes to use and celebrities usually play right into it.
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Old November 26 2013, 11:35 AM   #81
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Are you talking about Code of Honor? Because it was a racist piece of shit.
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Old November 26 2013, 11:57 AM   #82
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I have to be honest: I have not actually watched Code of Honor, recently. And from what I recall, the episode was rather thin and designed, basically, to give the Yar character something to do. I also recall that the planet's society has an ethnic, or tribal flavour, or texture, that I suppose could've potentially held certain racial connotations.

I am a John Carpenter fan, for example. Big Trouble in Little China is a movie of his starring Kurt Russell and STAR TREK 6's own Kim Catrall, which draws heavy inspiration from old Martial Arts movies and certain mystic beliefs. The movie is very well-loved by many, including me.

And yet, JC noted his confusion over how the Asian Community had seen some of its making and shouted racism. JC asked his - mostly Asian - cast, "please ... tell what am I doing wrong?" and they were like, "nothing. Nothing's wrong. We don't understand them." And maybe some of that applies here for Code of Honor. It's not a show I'm fond of, but I doubt censorship at the time would've allowed it to be aired if racism was the show's intentions.
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Old November 26 2013, 12:13 PM   #83
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I think maybe you need to rewatch it before you do any apologetics for it

It's freaking embarrassing. Intention doesn't excuse it, someone should have pulled the plug on it once they realized (which apparently the did) what the heck they were doing. Of course not pulling the plug can be blamed on all kinds of higher up execs I'd imagine.

I just looked up some quotes on it, Michael Dorn said "'Code of Honor' is the worst episode of Star Trek ever filmed." And there are more quotes involving a lot of invective.
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Old November 26 2013, 12:47 PM   #84
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I'm sure that Political Correctness still had a very long way to go when CODE of HONOR came out. I do not overly concern myself with perceived elements of racism in STAR TREK, because even where they might exist, this show was always very concerned about presenting a future where Humanity celebrates its differences ... provided that they are ethnic based, of course. Future Humanity apparently still goes for who and what's hot and makes fun of people who act, or are, insecure. And mistrusts anyone or anything unattractive.

STAR TREK is rife with imperfections and inappropriateness. ENTERPRISE is the same way. It has some real turkeys and its treatment of Jolene Blalock is sometimes appauling. But what I really love this show for is not what it is, but what it has always tried to be. And having a favorite or least favorite episode is only a matter of taste, nothing more. Whether it's These are the Voyages, Alternative Factor, Code of Honor, or anything else this beloved franchise sees fit to put out ...
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Old November 26 2013, 01:11 PM   #85
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I repeat my previous first sentence. This was 1987 not 1957.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:43 PM   #86
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I just got finished watching the last 1/3 of season 2.

Episode 22 "The Cogenitor" Tripp is a major pain in the ass who seems to think his way of viewing the universe is the only way...glad to see his narrow-mindedness get bitchslapped.

Episode 23 "Regeneration" SquEEEEE!

Episode 24 "First Flight" This episode reminded me of one of my favorite movies "The Right Stuff". We get to meet the infamous "Ruby" and the "602 Club". I really enjoyed the "Test Pilot" mentality of this episode. Chuck Yeager is one of my heros and I like the "grab life by the tail" mentality written into the characters.

Episode 26 "The Expanse" Ruby....we hardly knew ye, but at least half of the males in Starfleet did. The Vulcans pulling an "Event Horizon" moment was kinda lame. Tripp back to being an annoying douche. I did like the interaction between Dr. Phlox and T'Pol. I also enjoyed the build-up to T'Pol resigning her commision and staying with Enterprise. Good space battle moments between Starfleet and Klingons.

Starting Season 3 and looking foreward to it!
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Old November 26 2013, 09:52 PM   #87
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

You are in for a great ride
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Old November 27 2013, 12:23 AM   #88
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

teacake wrote: View Post
I think maybe you need to rewatch it before you do any apologetics for it
It's freaking embarrassing.
I need precious little incentive to (re)watch any episode of my beloved Next Generation ... so, I watched this one in all it's sort of "glory." More than anything, Code of Honor comes off as chauvenistic and sexist, but not racist, to me.

However, the Native American practice of "Counting Coup" being referenced should've just been avoided. Though I'm certain it's a historically accurate reference, but to hear it explained, it sounds very childish and lame.

The Hemmingway Interior Design Sense is completely absent on the planet. The costumes reminded me more of Arabian Knights than anything African. If anything, these aliens reminded me of those in Friday's Child.

This episode drags on and on. That is its greatest crime and
I give it a verdict of "guilty." ... It's BORING!!!
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Old November 27 2013, 03:35 PM   #89
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Saganistheman wrote: View Post
...
Starting Season 3 and looking foreward to it!
Season 3 is great! Enjoy!
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Old November 27 2013, 11:59 PM   #90
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I'm sure that Political Correctness still had a very long way to go when CODE of HONOR came out. I do not overly concern myself with perceived elements of racism in STAR TREK, because even where they might exist, this show was always very concerned about presenting a future where Humanity celebrates its differences ... provided that they are ethnic based, of course. Future Humanity apparently still goes for who and what's hot and makes fun of people who act, or are, insecure. And mistrusts anyone or anything unattractive.

STAR TREK is rife with imperfections and inappropriateness. ENTERPRISE is the same way. It has some real turkeys and its treatment of Jolene Blalock is sometimes appauling. But what I really love this show for is not what it is, but what it has always tried to be. And having a favorite or least favorite episode is only a matter of taste, nothing more. Whether it's These are the Voyages, Alternative Factor, Code of Honor, or anything else this beloved franchise sees fit to put out ...
Too true. Look at the way characters treat Barclay on TNG. That isn't very IDIC. Only Picard seems to stand up for the guy.
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