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Old January 12 2014, 02:37 AM   #211
andriech
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Except....let's be honest. It was a Trek '09 reference. I mean JC had a cameo in the movie it was pretty obvious that he was referring to that.

I just don't get it, no matter what context it was being used in. It just felt out of place no matter how you look at it.
People, you have to try to remember this was filmed in June 2009 - soon after James had filmed his part for Trek 09 and right after it was released.

The original line was "I haven't seen flying that bad since I stole a shuttle as a kid." It was a reference to "The Academy Years" script. While filming, James chose to make it a reference to Trek 09 - AS A TRIBUTE.

No one ever predicted it would take so many years to release this episode, or that Trek ID would, well, not represent TOS so thoroughly before the line was ever heard.

So please remember, you are putting many years of reaction and history onto a throwaway line that simply were not there when the scene was filmed.
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Old January 12 2014, 02:41 AM   #212
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
Pony, I think separate congratulations air in order for your performance. K'sia was a regal character and I had no trouble seeing him as the tutor to an emperor. Also the fact that he could be brought up short by Spock's reasonable and logical assertion that a "diplomat or tutor might" need medical attention was a very nice touch. Well played, sir!
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. Having just had the opportunity to watch this episode, Pony, your performance is, hands down, the best in the mix. You were regal and the perfect blend of tutor to an emperor/cohort and former esteemed warrior - with many nuances coming through. Given that you were ill and battling with the director to do this character justice, it is nothing short of a miracle. But you made it look easy. Kudos, and congratulations. You made K'Sia REAL...and that is an accomplishment. Thank you!
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Old January 12 2014, 03:13 AM   #213
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

andriech wrote: View Post
Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Except....let's be honest. It was a Trek '09 reference. I mean JC had a cameo in the movie it was pretty obvious that he was referring to that.

I just don't get it, no matter what context it was being used in. It just felt out of place no matter how you look at it.
People, you have to try to remember this was filmed in June 2009 - soon after James had filmed his part for Trek 09 and right after it was released.

The original line was "I haven't seen flying that bad since I stole a shuttle as a kid." It was a reference to "The Academy Years" script. While filming, James chose to make it a reference to Trek 09 - AS A TRIBUTE.

No one ever predicted it would take so many years to release this episode, or that Trek ID would, well, not represent TOS so thoroughly before the line was ever heard.

So please remember, you are putting many years of reaction and history onto a throwaway line that simply were not there when the scene was filmed.
I knew it would take years, Phase II episodes usually take a long time to get completed and I totally understand that.

It just seemed odd. I know James doesn't care for the films, and it just felt so out of place, I was just curious as to the reasoning.

And personally I thought STID was fantastic and I thought it felt a lot like Trek. Fact is movie making and the styles that are used now are so different from low budget 60's TV I can see why some people who are as attached to TOS just can't see it, but to me there was a clear connection.
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Old January 12 2014, 03:21 AM   #214
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
andriech wrote: View Post
Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
Except....let's be honest. It was a Trek '09 reference. I mean JC had a cameo in the movie it was pretty obvious that he was referring to that.

I just don't get it, no matter what context it was being used in. It just felt out of place no matter how you look at it.
People, you have to try to remember this was filmed in June 2009 - soon after James had filmed his part for Trek 09 and right after it was released.

The original line was "I haven't seen flying that bad since I stole a shuttle as a kid." It was a reference to "The Academy Years" script. While filming, James chose to make it a reference to Trek 09 - AS A TRIBUTE.

No one ever predicted it would take so many years to release this episode, or that Trek ID would, well, not represent TOS so thoroughly before the line was ever heard.

So please remember, you are putting many years of reaction and history onto a throwaway line that simply were not there when the scene was filmed.
I knew it would take years, Phase II episodes usually take a long time to get completed and I totally understand that.

It just seemed odd. I know James doesn't care for the films, and it just felt so out of place, I was just curious as to the reasoning.

And personally I thought STID was fantastic and I thought it felt a lot like Trek. Fact is movie making and the styles that are used now are so different from low budget 60's TV I can see why some people who are as attached to TOS just can't see it, but to me there was a clear connection.
STID had absolutely none of the heart of Star Trek, and none of the sense of exploration.

Even when the original movies did a revenge story ("Wrath of Khan"), it was more sophisticated than a bang-bang shoot-em'-up; the Genesis element gave it a sense of wonder and the social commentary Trek is so famous for.

It's not that people "can't see it." It's that they don't like it.

For the record, I thought the first JJ movie was at least somewhat charming. "Into Darkness" was a dreary exercise that was Star Trek in name only.
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Old January 12 2014, 03:31 AM   #215
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

I'd rather not see this thread become a discussion about the merits of nuTrek. There's a whole forum for that.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:20 AM   #216
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

USS Mariner wrote: View Post

Plus, did Cawley finally trim his sideburns for his last appearance in front of the camera? I've been praying for that for ages! (Yeah, he has them for his day job, but things like that really get to me after, what is this, a dozen episodes between NV and Phase II?)
His hair was shorter too. He didn't have any gigs lined up for July 4th as he usually does, so he was able to cut his hair and trim his sideburns. (You'll notice the same for Enemy: Starfleet)

(he ended up doing charity gigs anyway...just wore the outfit from "G.I. Blues" so the audience didn't lynch him.)
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Old January 12 2014, 05:23 AM   #217
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Re: Star trek kitumba

[QUOTE=RCAM;9072811]
- The script has some nice moments, but feels messy overall. There's too many ship-to-planet-to-ship relocations for the main characters; the episode would have benefited from a more streamlined approach to advancing the plot. [/QUOTE

I agree. But to me, as the writer, it was the editing, not the script. See below:

As it would happen, Kitumba was released right in the middle of a family tragedy so I actually didn't get to watch it until tonight. Here's my review:

In short - best Star Trek: Phase II episode since World Enough and Time. (WEAT still stands as the "bar" to me, and probably always will.) I had a couple issues with this one.

In detail:

- Visually, this episode is STUNNING. Far superior to anything Trek has put out to date: and yes, I also mean CBS and Paramount. That can be credited in large part to Tobias Richter of The Light Works and Pony Horton for the VFX work; Alex Ibrahim for the Photography; John Paladin and the makeup crew, Burad Joh'aj and the rest of the set decoration crew; and the costume/wardrobe department. Kudos and thanks to all of you!

- the acting was amazing. James Cawley, John Kelly, Kim Stinger, John Carrigan, and Anne Carrigan ramped it up a notch and really took control of their characters here. They WERE the best of Kirk, McCoy, Uhura, Kargh and Le'ak. I will seriously miss James in the role of Kirk - he made the character his own, and when I write it's his Kirk I hear and see in my mind. Kario Pereira Bailey, Pony Horton and Michele Specht brought their characters to 3 dimensional life and made the audience know exactly who they were. Damn fine job. The rest of the cast hit the mark as well. Except for Vic as "Malkthon". He came off as a two dimensional, snarling caricature. Maybe that's just because I am the writer and know that he turned several character-defining dialogues into "Kill them!". (Seriously?) (There might be a drinking game hidden here)

- I have to mention the set work of Jeff Mailhotte and Tony D and the prop work of everyone, including Bill Teegarden, and the fight choreography of John Carrigan. There were so many places where I thought "no fan film can pull this off". Well, they did, and did so spectacularly.

- The sound took me out a few times. Sometimes it was the mic. Sometimes it was the overpowering dramatic music punctuating a scene. I tend to think the latter is just TOS though. (admit it, when you watch TOS sometimes the campy music makes you cringe) Or maybe it was the over dramatic TOS music right after the over-acting guy snarled "Kill them!" again.

- The editing - uh - was cringe-worthy and diminished the episode. I'm sorry, but it did. I am not talking about the technical skill involved. It was seamless. I am talking about the choices - which may have been the editors, or may have been a producers. (In the past the rough edits were run by the writer, not in this case, and I apologize to the audience for that.) So here are my issues...in some cases the dialouge was clipped and shortened so much that it no longer made sense. For instance...I have no idea what "sanctuary" is and why they qualified for it...and I wrote the script. I saw a complaint somewhere that the E folks just keep beaming up and down from the planet and another that that part of the script was "messy" and I didn't understand it. Now I do. ALL of the "spy" and intrigue on the planet was cut out of the episode. Which means, people beaming down in secret and having to sneak their way to their goal and risking getting caught in doing so is completely gone. It was jarring to me. People just show up at Kargh's office or at the "dungeon." Kargh says he can sneak them into the palace...well, apparently it was quite easy because the next scene there they are, walking into the room. And then there is Kali. Really? Just like that? You can't really say that this was for time - because on line there is no worry about fitting into a standard running time period. It just ruined the latter part of the script to me and eliminated the suspense and, well, cheapened the danger the crew was in. Either the person in charge of the edit didn't get it or didn't like it. Either way, I think the audience missed out. (and you missed a bunch of John Carrigan's awesome fight choreography). I can't say that if the sneaking around and spying part of the episode as I (and JML) wrote it was put back in it would be any good - I just know the end feels rushed and I felt cheated.

Again, overall I think this episode is an amazing one - and highlights some of the best of Star Trek: Phase II. Thanks to everyone in the production crew - past and present - for the incredible amount of hard work and perserverance that it took to pull this off. (Four of our crew that participated in this episode have since died, so it's a fitting tribute to their work.)
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Old January 12 2014, 06:46 AM   #218
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

Thanks for your thoughts on the direction of the edits. Would be interesting to see a different cut and whether that would affect my perception. As someone who's had written work interpreted and mashed up myself, I can appreciate that issues come up in translation.

I liked Vic's performance myself, but obviously don't have any concept of his role in interpreting/changing the words/tone and whether it could have been done better.
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Old January 12 2014, 10:03 AM   #219
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

andriech wrote: View Post
MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
Pony, I think separate congratulations air in order for your performance. K'sia was a regal character and I had no trouble seeing him as the tutor to an emperor. Also the fact that he could be brought up short by Spock's reasonable and logical assertion that a "diplomat or tutor might" need medical attention was a very nice touch. Well played, sir!
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. Having just had the opportunity to watch this episode, Pony, your performance is, hands down, the best in the mix. You were regal and the perfect blend of tutor to an emperor/cohort and former esteemed warrior - with many nuances coming through. Given that you were ill and battling with the director to do this character justice, it is nothing short of a miracle. But you made it look easy. Kudos, and congratulations. You made K'Sia REAL...and that is an accomplishment. Thank you!
Agreed, and I finally realized the word I was trying to describe Pony's performance. It's "dignified." K'Sia is a dignified, regal man, with strong ties to the Empire, and his own personal honor. Yeah, I can't say enough about his performance either.

I didn't know he was ill! He certainly didn't show it. It takes serious dedication to be ill, get into costuming and makeup, and then spend all that time playing one's part, all the while feeling sick as a dog. I would love to see him in future performances. He was a delight to watch. I don't mind saying that if there are more performances like his in the offing, you guys will give the studios an even bigger run for their money.

Yeah, I gush. Big whoop, ya wanna fight about it? [/Patty Tanager]
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Old January 12 2014, 11:14 AM   #220
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!

It's no secret as to my being ill, I'm living with AIDS, not to mention I became ill with pneumonia during the later days of the shoot.

I guess it's like being a doctor at the 4077th - when you're not operating, you're in the latrine with dysentary. You get kinda used to it, and try to not let it affect your work. I had a corner of the Green Room for naps (MOST of us nap there at some point during the long shoot days) and everyone was very helpful.

Keeping a sense of humor helps, and there were a LOT of laughs on that show.

As to the character's dignity, I will allude that the director and I saw it differently from each other. He wanted me to be very angry and disrespectful of the Earthers; whereas I felt K'Sia was interested in them while not fully trusting them. In my mind, I kept thinking of how Anthony Hopkins played Zorro, not that I could ever come close to Hopkins in terms of acting chops. But that's how I approached K'Sia.

For us Star Trek book fans out there, I also kept in mind Dr. G'Dath from A FLAG FULL OF STARS, one of my favorite Klingons.
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Old January 12 2014, 12:37 PM   #221
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I'd rather not see this thread become a discussion about the merits of nuTrek. There's a whole forum for that.
Indeed. Although I'm amazed anyone could miss Trek's most blatant social commentary since "A Private Little War". We'd be happy to enlighten you over in XI+, RCAM
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Old January 12 2014, 03:03 PM   #222
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

Well, I say, 2 stand-out peformances by either Pony and Vic.
Vic was not over-acting, he perfectly demonstrated The KLINGON Way! Having seen lots of them in professional productions.
Whereas Pony had those fine subtleties in his K'Sia. Loved them both!
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Old January 12 2014, 06:08 PM   #223
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

well, you don't know what you missed with the Malkthon character: which was replaced by snarling and spitting. The actor that was to replace him made the character real, a fitting complement to K'Sia.

And, yes, Pony was fighting a flare up at the time and a director who kept yelling "IGNORE what the writer said and just growl!" He fought that battle and won - the worst of situations for an actor, and yet he pulled it off.
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Old January 12 2014, 09:31 PM   #224
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I'd rather not see this thread become a discussion about the merits of nuTrek. There's a whole forum for that.
Indeed. Although I'm amazed anyone could miss Trek's most blatant social commentary since "A Private Little War". We'd be happy to enlighten you over in XI+, RCAM
Sorry, should have said "well-done, nuanced social commentary." I'd say "blatant" is a good descriptor. Maybe I'll pop by the thread.

On Malkethon: I think snarling worked for him, though it wouldn't have for the K'Sia character, who's more cultured.
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Old January 12 2014, 11:10 PM   #225
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Re: Star Trek: Phase II - "Kitumba" Officially Released!

One of the things that make this episode so good is that the Klingons aren't all the same. There are thoughtful, considerate diplomats (K'Sia), seasoned, military commanders (Kargh), young, idealistic iconoclasts (the Kitumba), and the scene chewing, over-the-top blowhards (Malka'thon).
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