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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old November 28 2013, 10:34 PM   #61
intrinsical
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

For me, the only interesting thing about Fires of Pompei is that a future companion and future Doctor is in the episode.
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Old November 28 2013, 11:26 PM   #62
diankra
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, nothing much to add to your latest review, except that your pattern holds.
You like the simple adventure romps much better than the more serious morality plays.

Episodes like Fires of Pompeji have their campy elements, but the major point of it was the Doctor struggeling with the impossibilty of saving the city despite knowing the cause which wasn't natural at all.
And then gaining a small victory after all when he saved the family at the pleading of Donna "Just save someone!"
it carries on a theme of the Doctor needing a companion to remind him sometimes of why he calls himself the Doctor while carrying the burden of protector of space and time which should fall to all Time Lords.
This episode is noteworthy for 2 other reasons, it features 2 actors who will go on playing much more prominent roles in the future of the franchise.
Three in a sense, as Tracey Childs (the wife) plays a companion in the Big Finish CDs. In real life she's the widow of Tony Anholt from Space 1999 (and, adding this in an edit, in the 1980s soap Howards' Way she played the daughter of Maurice 'Lytton' Colbourne's character. Interconnections!)
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Last edited by diankra; November 29 2013 at 04:26 AM.
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Old November 28 2013, 11:41 PM   #63
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

diankra wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, nothing much to add to your latest review, except that your pattern holds.
You like the simple adventure romps much better than the more serious morality plays.

Episodes like Fires of Pompeji have their campy elements, but the major point of it was the Doctor struggeling with the impossibilty of saving the city despite knowing the cause which wasn't natural at all.
And then gaining a small victory after all when he saved the family at the pleading of Donna "Just save someone!"
it carries on a theme of the Doctor needing a companion to remind him sometimes of why he calls himself the Doctor while carrying the burden of protector of space and time which should fall to all Time Lords.
This episode is noteworthy for 2 other reasons, it features 2 actors who will go on playing much more prominent roles in the future of the franchise.
Three in a sense, as Tracey Childs (the wife) plays a companion in the Big Finish CDs. In real life she's the widow of Tony Anholt from Space 1999
Cool, I didn't know Tracey Childs was in Fires of Pompeii. She's a new Liz Shaw type companion, right? I have the last 6 Main Range Releases (starting with Persuasion, which I believe is her introduction?) and Gallifrey Series 6 ready to listen to when I finish my current Audiobook (Also have several of the First 50 discounted Main Range as well)
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Old November 29 2013, 01:53 AM   #64
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Its interesting to see UNIT since the early 4th Doctor that I've been watching has had a fair amount of the group (although that apparently is done with, now that I finished Terror of the Zygons).
There are a few more UNIT stories here and there, and three where the Brigadier comes back (The Five Doctors, Mawdryn Undead, and Battlefield).

I thought that The Doctor's Daughter was a great episode. Jenny was an interesting character, and the actress did a great job. I liked how she started as just another soldier when she left the pod, but by the end she was definately The Doctor's daughter. I'm also really glad that they mentioned that The Doctor has had kids before. I know that The Doctor originally traveled with Susan, who apparently was supposed to be his legitimate Granddaughter so she must have come from a child of the doctor, but I was wondering if him having a family like that would be ignored by modern Doctor Who. Looking Jenny's actress up on wikipedia, apparently she is the daughter of The Doctor (Peter Davidson being her dad) which is interesting. She's also apparently married to David Tennant. I'm sure everyone was already aware of that, but I found it interesting.
I liked Jenny, too - I wish they'd do another story with her sometime.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Doctor's attitude in that story, though. Of course it's unreasonable to expect him to feel any emotional connection with a daughter created by some superduper-quick cloning-type method, but he didn't need to be so cold about it, either. This reminded me of the TNG episode with the clones; at least Jenny wasn't treated like so much medical waste and destroyed.
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Old November 29 2013, 01:56 AM   #65
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

"The Doctor's Daughter" features the Tenth Doctor at his most sanctimonious. As the comic I've often posted here says:

"Make the foundation of this society a man who never would!"

"What about the Vervoids?"
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Old November 29 2013, 04:05 AM   #66
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, nothing much to add to your latest review, except that your pattern holds.
You like the simple adventure romps much better than the more serious morality plays.
I don't think thats fair to say. I'm not just watching Doctor Who for simple episodes like monster of the day type stories. In fact, three of the episodes that I thought were fairly lame, The Lasarus Experiment, 42 and The Idiot's Lantern were basically simple monster stories. I'd also say that Blink and Human Nature/The family of Blood weren't morality stories. When I think of morality stories, I think of (to use Star Trek as an example) DS9's excellent In The Pale Moonlight. With HN/TFoB, I'll admit that I totally don't care about the Doctor's desire to live a human life, at least in a story told like that. But, I think its unfair to claim that I'm only for mindless action. Simple stories can be done well, but it doesn't make it a type of story I go for over complex stuff.

Heck, if we bring films into this, if I was only into simple stories I wouldn't enjoy movies like Memento and Inception as much as I do. It really just depends on the story. I can get into a complex sci fi story or something that questions morality, I just didn't find anything particularly interesting in the HN/TFoB two parter. A lot of that is because the part of the Doctor who wants a normal family is not something that I find particularly interesting. It wasn't too complex, its just fairly boring to me, it basically goes against the whole appeal of The Doctor. That said, they could probably explore that in a way I'd find interesting, I just didn't find an amnesiac Doctor to be a way that interested me. As for Blink, I can't explain that in the same context. I've enjoyed more complex time travel tales, its main failure was in the characters it had. Sally & co just weren't written in a way that made me particularly interested in them, and the time travel elements were fairly boring, too. Nothing was hard to understand, I just thought that it was a bland time travel story that had some cool ideas, like the Angels. I'm all for complex stories, if they can give me good character elements (which Blink didn't) or don't totally go against the appeal of the character the story is about.

To continue my modern Doctor Who watching, I saw The Unicorn and the Wasp. This was a fun episode. I don't know much about Agatha Christie, but I knew she was a mystery writer. The whole episode was entertaining. I liked the murder mystery style story, and the fact that I didn't call the eventual conclusion. It also had some funny moments, and was overall a very good episode. Next up is the two part Silence in the Library/The Forest of the dead.
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Old November 29 2013, 04:29 AM   #67
diankra
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

Sindatur wrote: View Post
diankra wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, nothing much to add to your latest review, except that your pattern holds.
You like the simple adventure romps much better than the more serious morality plays.

Episodes like Fires of Pompeji have their campy elements, but the major point of it was the Doctor struggeling with the impossibilty of saving the city despite knowing the cause which wasn't natural at all.
And then gaining a small victory after all when he saved the family at the pleading of Donna "Just save someone!"
it carries on a theme of the Doctor needing a companion to remind him sometimes of why he calls himself the Doctor while carrying the burden of protector of space and time which should fall to all Time Lords.
This episode is noteworthy for 2 other reasons, it features 2 actors who will go on playing much more prominent roles in the future of the franchise.
Three in a sense, as Tracey Childs (the wife) plays a companion in the Big Finish CDs. In real life she's the widow of Tony Anholt from Space 1999
Cool, I didn't know Tracey Childs was in Fires of Pompeii. She's a new Liz Shaw type companion, right? I have the last 6 Main Range Releases (starting with Persuasion, which I believe is her introduction?) and Gallifrey Series 6 ready to listen to when I finish my current Audiobook (Also have several of the First 50 discounted Main Range as well)
Yes, sort of, she's a scientist, but IIRC...
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Old November 29 2013, 04:41 AM   #68
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

I get the feeling you won't like Steven Moffat's stories. He tends to rely on gimmicks and tricks, such as complex time travel and playing with words rather than morality play and drama.

Examples that you would have encountered by now include walking into different times of Renee Antoinette's life in The Girl in the Fireplace, or The Doctor having a conversation through time using DVD extras in Blink. You'll be encountering an example of Moffat playing with words in Silence of the Library/Forest of the Dead. And of course the character arc of River Song is another huge Moffat timey wimey trope.
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Old November 29 2013, 05:01 AM   #69
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

intrinsical wrote: View Post
I get the feeling you won't like Steven Moffat's stories. He tends to rely on gimmicks and tricks, such as complex time travel and playing with words rather than morality play and drama.

Examples that you would have encountered by now include walking into different times of Renee Antoinette's life in The Girl in the Fireplace, or The Doctor having a conversation through time using DVD extras in Blink. You'll be encountering an example of Moffat playing with words in Silence of the Library/Forest of the Dead. And of course the character arc of River Song is another huge Moffat timey wimey trope.
I actually thought that The Girl in the Fireplace was an excellent episode. I thought that the time windows plot device worked very well. I'd probably place it as the second best episode of Series 2 after School Reunion, and probably in my top 5 episodes that I've seen so far in modern Doctor Who. It was an example of a gimmick that was done well, and time travel used effectively. The character stuff was also great. I also thought that the DVD conversation was one of the clever, interesting things about Blink. I don't have any problem with word play (which I don't think has even came up before) or stories with special time travel gimmicks. My problem with Blink wasn't the time travel, it was the character stuff, which to me dragged the episode down.

EDIT: I just finished Silence in the Library. Its an excellent episode with a great cliffhanger. It was very creepy, and entertaining throughout. The "ghosting" effect was probably the creepiest thing, which is saying something. The skeleton suit was pretty cool, and Donna's disappearance on the TARDIS and her face appearing was very interesting. Even the stuff with the girl seeing the library in her mind was good and makes me interested to know whats going on. I'm really excited for Forest of the Dead.

Last edited by kirk55555; November 29 2013 at 06:45 AM.
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Old November 29 2013, 12:03 PM   #70
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

There's nothing interesting in Human Nature? Really? One of the most character-driven Doctor Who ever? A story that delves into the Doctor's desires and feelings more than any other?

Wow.
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Old November 29 2013, 12:16 PM   #71
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I just finished Silence in the Library. Its an excellent episode with a great cliffhanger. It was very creepy, and entertaining throughout. The "ghosting" effect was probably the creepiest thing, which is saying something. The skeleton suit was pretty cool, and Donna's disappearance on the TARDIS and her face appearing was very interesting. Even the stuff with the girl seeing the library in her mind was good and makes me interested to know whats going on. I'm really excited for Forest of the Dead.
Yeah this two parter was pretty average for me, mostly because in the week before part two aird, I figured out the meaning of "Donna Nobel is not in the Library. Donna Nobel has been saved." And knowing the meaning, all that dramatic tension in the cliffhanger just dissipated.
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Old November 29 2013, 08:01 PM   #72
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
There's nothing interesting in Human Nature? Really? One of the most character-driven Doctor Who ever? A story that delves into the Doctor's desires and feelings more than any other?

Wow.
It may have technically been "character driven", but the character was an extremely poorly written british person from the past named John Smith. If the show decides to explore The Doctor's desires and feelings, I'll watch with an open mind. I don't need any action at all if the writing is good. I can even forgive a lackluster overall story if it has good character moments. But, if you're exploring The Doctor's character, I have one requirement. The Doctor must be the focus. Not David Tennant playing (as well as could be done, admittedly) a super boring, bland british guy in a story that spends most of its time being a serious period drama with aliens kind of thrown into it a few times.

Back to my modern Doctor who watching, i've gotten through two episodes. Forest of Death was good, although not quite as good as Silence in the Library. I liked the overall story, most of the character moments (like River's sacrifice) and the reveals. What drags it down a bit is that they could have cut a few minutes of Donna's matrix time (I know its not actually called the matrix, but you know what I mean). I've seen several shows and read stories with a person going into a matrix/dream world, having a family, then finding out they weren't real (A good example would be Alan Moore's superman comic story For the Man Who Has everything). Donna's wasn't bad, but I felt it overstayed its welcome. Still, overall it was a a good episode, and a good two part story.

Next was Midnight. I liked this episode, although it had a few flaws. I think there could have been a slower build up for the people deciding to kill The Doctor along with the woman. It felt like it came about a little too quickly. All of the screaming when the creature was copying everyone also got a bit grating at times. Overall I thought it was a good episode that was well done. It was definately a successful use of doing a show in basically just one location, it used the enviroment effectively and kept me interested. The passengers were also done fairly well.

Next up will be Turn Left. I haven't seen any story spoilers for it, but I do know its a "doctor-lite" episode. Still, its apparently a Donna focused story, and I think she can probably carry a solo story well. Much better than the random people from Blink. I just hope we get writing thats better than Love & Monsters.
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Old November 29 2013, 11:47 PM   #73
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

If I recall correctly, Midnight was the Donna-Lite Story, and Turn Left, The Doctor-Lite story, so, they were pretty much done at the same time
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Old November 30 2013, 07:52 AM   #74
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

I've gone through several more episodes. Turn Left was disappointing. I think the actress could easily have held a story by herself, but most of the episode was just Donna running around with temporary amnesia (what is it with series 4 and giving characters amnesia?). Now, I suppose it could be foreshadowing of the finale, but I think thats a stretch. Seeing Rose again was nice, though.

The Stolen Earth/The Journey's End was a great finale. It had a lot of great moments, and it was awesome to see so many people return for the special. The Daleks were cool as usual, but Devros stole the show. I'm glad that, in my Fourth Doctor watching, i've gotten past Genesis of the Daleks. I don't know if he appeared after that, although he was apparently in the time war. Still, it added something to seeing him here, and of course thats where he knows Sarah Jane from (and it was cool that he acknowledged that she was there at the beginning of the Daleks). The human Doctor was an interesting idea, and it was nice to see him go with Rose. Seeing the TARDIS towing the Earth was awesome It sucks about what happened to Donna, but I thought it was a decent way to end her time as a companion.

After that was the first of the 2009 specials, The Next Doctor. This was a very good episode with an interesting concept. I think that the fake Doctor could probably have made a good real Doctor. The giant Cybermen mech was kind of goofy but cool.

Planet of the Dead was the last episode I watched today. It was another good episode. The female thief was an interesting character, if she wasn't so into robbery she'd probably make a good companion. The flying bus was funny. It was cool to see the slightly annoying scientist stand up to the UNIT commander who wanted to strand The Doctor. I mean, I get what she was thinking, but she wasn't think it through. Sure, leaving the wormhole open was a danger, but stranding and killing to Doctor would probably end up leading to the earth being destroyed whenever the Daleks or Cybermen or another threat inevitably came back.

Next up will be The Water of Mars, and I'll probably get to The End of Time and the beginning of series 5 as well.
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Old November 30 2013, 09:02 AM   #75
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Re: Getting back to watching Dr. Who

There's more Davros after the Fourth Doctor.
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