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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old November 15 2013, 05:07 PM   #1
Noddy
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Torchwood: Miracle Day

Regarding the fourth season of Torchwood, hasn't there been some speculation that it occurs in a separate timeline to the one that Series 5+ of Doctor Who takes place in? That is, it follows on from TW Series 1-3 and DW Series 1-4, but after that it diverges into a new, distinct continuum? One reason some people seem to be taking this approach seems to be due to the fact that the cataclysmic events of Miracle Day don't appear to have any impact on the "present day" scenes of recent DW stories, particularly those in Series 6.
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Old November 15 2013, 05:25 PM   #2
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

If you have to use the phrase "distinct continuum" with a straight face, you're probably not talking about Doctor Who.
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Old November 15 2013, 06:50 PM   #3
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

I will never understand this need to place everything so carefully in continuity like a puzzle. Especially a time travel show (and it's spin offs.)

Does it really matter? Does it affect your enjoyment? (Well, Miracle Day is shit shit shit, so I guess anyway to try and make that shit better I guess.)

If there is a divergence for Miracle Day why isn't there one for Children of Earth? That didn't have any "impact" on "present" Doctor Who stories.

The only problem with Miracle Day is that it exists.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:25 PM   #4
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

I didn't come up with this idea; I've seen it being discussed by other fans elsewhere. The main thing is that in Miracle Day, you have this gigantic cataclysmic event happen that effects the lives of billions, and in DW stories set around the same time and not long after, it's had no impact, almost like it didn't happen.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:26 PM   #5
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Torchwood already didn't really fit timewise with Doctor Who, before Miracle Day happened, because of Children of Earth, and I think there might have even been inconsistencies before that
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Old November 15 2013, 07:41 PM   #6
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Jack Harkness' brief appearance near the end of The End of Time Part 2 is definitely after the events of Children of Earth, as he's clearly mourning the deaths of Ianto and his grandson there. I believe one of the early Eleventh Doctor novels also briefly references CoE too. I never saw any discontinuity between DW and TW in the RTD years, personally.

Interestingly, the TW novel Exodus takes place after Miracle Day, and refers back to events in the Tenth Doctor novel Beautiful Chaos.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:30 PM   #7
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Noddy wrote: View Post
Jack Harkness' brief appearance near the end of The End of Time Part 2 is definitely after the events of Children of Earth, as he's clearly mourning the deaths of Ianto and his grandson there.
Yes, but the rest of humanity seems to have brushed off the Aliens coming and wanting to take their kids.

Time and time again, humanity seems to forget things in Doctor Who. They willfully want to be ignorant--which would explain why both Children of Earth and Miracle Day don't have an "impact" on humanity and the stories.

Basically, I'm saying: why can't the reason that Children of Earth had no impact on ALL of humanity be the same reason for Miracle Day? Why is there a difference? Why are you ok with one but not the other?

There also might be a good reason why Miracle Day is ignored and never mentioned. Again: it was shit.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:31 PM   #8
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

As the Doctor would say "Time can be rewritten".
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Old November 15 2013, 08:51 PM   #9
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

MacLeod wrote: View Post
As the Doctor would say "Time can be rewritten".
No, Earth's miraculous vagina is a fixed point in time... and space.
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Old November 16 2013, 12:34 AM   #10
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

To be honest, I can go either way. If someone can figure out a way to reconcile Miracle Day with DW's depiction of the same time, that's great, but I'm also content with Miracle Day occurring in some divergent timestream distinct from the one inhabited by Amy, Rory and Clara. Neither takes precedence over the other, they both co-exist. Sort of like the NuTrek timeline and the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT one.
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Old November 16 2013, 01:07 AM   #11
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Well, the "cracks in time" arc in Smith's first season explicitly erased the events of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and "The Next Doctor" from the timeline. Amy didn't remember the Earth being taken/invaded by the Daleks, and history didn't record the Cyber King's rampage. So there's already a built-in mechanism for "Miracle Day" being overwritten. Whether that leaves it as a divergent timeline, who knows? We're unlikely to see more Torchwood, so it could go either way.
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Old November 16 2013, 03:45 AM   #12
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Noddy wrote: View Post
Regarding the fourth season of Torchwood, hasn't there been some speculation that it occurs in a separate timeline to the one that Series 5+ of Doctor Who takes place in? That is, it follows on from TW Series 1-3 and DW Series 1-4, but after that it diverges into a new, distinct continuum? One reason some people seem to be taking this approach seems to be due to the fact that the cataclysmic events of Miracle Day don't appear to have any impact on the "present day" scenes of recent DW stories, particularly those in Series 6.
The only season 6 episodes that Miracle Day would have an impact on are the opening scene of Let's Kill Hitler, the closing scene of The God Complex, and Amy and River's chat near the end of The Wedding of River Song.

Since Miracle Day takes place in 2011, the world presumably had enough time to pull itself back together by 2013+ that all remaining modern day Pond and Clara episodes are set in.
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Old November 16 2013, 04:08 AM   #13
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

^IIRC, there was a Sarah Jane Adventures episode which explicitly took place on a date that placed it during Miracle Day, but the Miracle clearly wasn't happening there.
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Old November 16 2013, 10:57 AM   #14
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the "cracks in time" arc in Smith's first season explicitly erased the events of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and "The Next Doctor" from the timeline. Amy didn't remember the Earth being taken/invaded by the Daleks, and history didn't record the Cyber King's rampage. So there's already a built-in mechanism for "Miracle Day" being overwritten. Whether that leaves it as a divergent timeline, who knows? We're unlikely to see more Torchwood, so it could go either way.
Well, to be fair, we don't know if the Dalek invasion and the Cyber King were restored when the universe was rebooted. For all we know, they could have been. I suspect it's left deliberately ambiguous so people can draw their own conclusions. Miracle Day is a bit of a harder thing to figure out though.
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Old November 16 2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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Re: Torchwood: Miracle Day

Noddy wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the "cracks in time" arc in Smith's first season explicitly erased the events of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and "The Next Doctor" from the timeline. Amy didn't remember the Earth being taken/invaded by the Daleks, and history didn't record the Cyber King's rampage. So there's already a built-in mechanism for "Miracle Day" being overwritten. Whether that leaves it as a divergent timeline, who knows? We're unlikely to see more Torchwood, so it could go either way.
Well, to be fair, we don't know if the Dalek invasion and the Cyber King were restored when the universe was rebooted. For all we know, they could have been. I suspect it's left deliberately ambiguous so people can draw their own conclusions. Miracle Day is a bit of a harder thing to figure out though.
Can you answer WHY it's harder to figure out? You are comfortable assuming the Dalek Invasion and the Cyber King was, why not Miracle Day? Why is Miracle Day so much more unique than any of the other countless events that should've changed Earth forever, but didn't?
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