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Old November 26 2013, 03:53 AM   #211
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Janeway put B'Elanna to the test and proved she was qualified by passing it.
Janeway put Harry to the test and he was never ready for it.
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Old November 26 2013, 04:25 AM   #212
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Re: Lt. Kim

The test was, can you run a department.

Harry can.

Harry does.

(B'Elanna's department is half the crew. Harry's is 5 guys.)

What about the poor bastard that took over from Tom (Helm is a department? there are many pilots and some one has to keep them in order.) when Paris was demoted, only to get pushed aside because Janeway had a brain fart?

Maybe Tom didn't get his rank because because he's awesome, maybe he got his rank back because his replacement sucked?
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Old November 26 2013, 04:44 AM   #213
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Re: Lt. Kim

That's the best way to move up in the world. You don't have to do anything, just make sure those below you are clearly inferior.
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Old November 26 2013, 04:45 AM   #214
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The test was, can you run a department.

Harry can.

Harry does.

(B'Elanna's department is half the crew. Harry's is 5 guys.)

What about the poor bastard that took over from Tom (Helm is a department? there are many pilots and some one has to keep them in order.) when Paris was demoted, only to get pushed aside because Janeway had a brain fart?

Maybe Tom didn't get his rank because because he's awesome, maybe he got his rank back because his replacement sucked?
What dept. does Harry run?
Ensigns don't run dept.

Tom got his rank due to who his father is.
Janeway was ambitious, the fast track to Admiral was reforming the Admirals son from traitor to upstanding citizen again. If she could do that, she'd have Admiral Paris in her corner for her own recommendation for Admiral.

teacake wrote: View Post
That's the best way to move up in the world. You don't have to do anything, just make sure those below you are clearly inferior.


That was in the movie "Go".
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Old November 26 2013, 05:10 AM   #215
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Re: Lt. Kim

I think Janeway saw potential in Tom, and appreciated his talent as a pilot, and she nurtured his potential and talents.
I always thought Harry looked out of place anytime he was in on the senior officer meetings. He was fine to be on the bridge, but looked way out of his league getting the senior officer treatment.
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Old November 26 2013, 05:35 AM   #216
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Re: Lt. Kim

Harry is the Operations Officer, which runs the Operations Department, which is why he gets to sit in on all the big meetings, which is also a bridge position. Operations is two things, making sure that the plumbing is regular (constipation pun intended.) and quartermaster. If there's a mission, he has to assign all resources (Tools, equipment, clothing, and vehicles.) as well as the power to make all those resources work. In ordinary life he makes sure that everyone gets their minimum standard of Starfleet assets, like boots, blankets and replicator rations... (He was the Voyager's Treasurer? Every time he participated in a pool, he was defrauding himself?)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Operations_officer

(I Know! He's a gerbil!)

The larger the ship, there's a geometric (size of the ship x size of the crew x difficulty of possible mission remit.) increase in the amount of labour and oversight an operations will need to have to get her job done.

Lt Commander Data after 30 years in Starfleet was enterprise's Operations Officer. (massive ship x massive crew x mission impossible.)

Ensign Kim on his first day out of the academy was Voyager's Operations Officer. (Tiny ship x tiny crew x dinky predictably samey missions.)
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Old November 26 2013, 05:39 AM   #217
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Harry is the Operations Officer, which runs the Operations Department, which is why he gets to sit in on all the big meetings, which is also a bridge position. Operations is two things, making sure that the plumbing is regular (constipation pun intended.) and quartermaster. If there's a mission, he has to assign all resources (Tools, equipment, clothing, and vehicles.) as well as the power to make all those resources work. In ordinary life he makes sure that everyone gets their minimum standard of Starfleet assets, like boots, blankets and replicator rations... (He was the Voyager's Treasurer? Every time he participated in a pool, he was defrauding himself?)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Operations_officer

(I Know! He's a gerbil!)

The larger the ship, there's a geometric (size of the ship x size of the crew x difficulty of possible mission remit.) increase in the amount of labour and oversight an operations will need to have to get her job done.

Lt Commander Data after 30 years in Starfleet was enterprise's Operations Officer. (massive ship x massive crew x mission impossible.)

Ensign Kim on his first day out of the academy was Voyager's Operations Officer. (Tiny ship x tiny crew x dinky predictably samey missions.)
Again, when did we ever see anyone report to Harry?
All the duties you described we saw handled by B'Elanna or Tuvok.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:04 AM   #218
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Re: Lt. Kim

Why they think Harry does that, is because that's what O'Brien did, and they "sorta" have the same job.

Janeway said that 13 Departments write a report to Tuvok every day in Scientific Method.

What do you think Harry puts in his daily reports to Tuvok?

"I'm lonely. Why won't a woman love me?"

When Harry was not sitting in the Operations position, every time we see him somewhere else on the ship, or on an away mission, some other bugger is sitting in his chair at the Operations position over seeing operations.

Possibility #1: It's a floater in a last man standing bridge and any one can do Harry's job.

Possibility 2: There are an unknown number of Junior Operations (Petty?) Officers who work for Harry and/or stand in for Harry when he's sleeping or on break.

Possibility 3: The bridge posisiton is left unmanned and vacant beciase it's a bit shit.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:14 AM   #219
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Why they think Harry does that, is because that's what O'Brien did, and they "sorta" have the same job.

Janeway said that 13 Departments write a report to Tuvok every day in Scientific Method.

What do you think Harry puts in his daily reports to Tuvok?

"I'm lonely. Why won't a woman love me?"

When Harry was not sitting in the Operations position, every time we see him somewhere else on the ship, or on an away mission, some other bugger is sitting in his chair at the Operations position over seeing operations.

Possibility #1: It's a floater in a last man standing bridge and any one can do Harry's job.

Possibility 2: There are an unknown number of Junior Operations (Petty?) Officers who work for Harry and/or stand in for Harry when he's sleeping or on break.

Possibility 3: The bridge posisiton is left unmanned and vacant beciase it's a bit shit.
In other words, you don't have answer.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:25 AM   #220
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Re: Lt. Kim

No, I think he's a Department Head.

I was also being fair and balanced.

You don't believe in Memory Alpha?
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Old November 26 2013, 06:28 AM   #221
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Re: Lt. Kim

Memory Alpha is NOT canon.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:30 AM   #222
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Re: Lt. Kim

From Good Shepherd.

SEVEN: I've given Operations an efficiency rating of seventy six out of a possible one hundred.
KIM: Not exactly flying colours.
SEVEN: The crewmen you assigned to the night shift are frequently left with little to do once the ship's course has been locked in.
EMH: The devil finds work for idle hands.
Squint your eyes please.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:31 AM   #223
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
No, I think he's a Department Head.

I was also being fair and balanced.

You don't believe in Memory Alpha?
I think it's a good description of the job, that's doesn't apply to Harry Kim.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:33 AM   #224
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Re: Lt. Kim

teacake wrote: View Post
Memory Alpha is NOT canon.
In theory it's annotated canonical information.

Sometimes the novel canon and the TV canon mush up, but there are nerds policing nerds to make sure that fanfiction doesn't take root.
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Old November 26 2013, 06:33 AM   #225
exodus
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Re: Lt. Kim

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
From Good Shepherd.

SEVEN: I've given Operations an efficiency rating of seventy six out of a possible one hundred.
KIM: Not exactly flying colours.
SEVEN: The crewmen you assigned to the night shift are frequently left with little to do once the ship's course has been locked in.
EMH: The devil finds work for idle hands.
Squint your eyes please.
Once again, its saying Harry isn't good at his job.


Besides, are we supposed to believe in open space NOTHING ever happens because the crew of one ship is a sleep?
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