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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old November 2 2013, 05:28 PM   #1
Gotham Central
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UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

As an old school DC comics fan, one of the things that I loved was that in the original Kamandi series it was foretold that there would be an event that would radically change the DC earth forever. We knew very little about said event other than it was called the The Great Disaster and that as result Kamandi would be the last boy on Earth and grow up in a post apocalyptic world.

Now Star Trek will never be THAT grim. However, one of the few things that I've actually liked about the new Trek films is that has actually locked into place a specific cataclysm that will have a traumatic effect on the original Star Trek timeline. For the movies this was just a throw away event used as a justification for Nero's vendetta…i.e. something that will never have to actually be addressed.

For the books, the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline…and cannot simply be ignored. Given than the absolute present in the novels is, I believe, 2384…that means that Romulus only has about 3 years of life left to it.

I'm wondering if the folks at Pocket Books and some of the writers have started to give any thought to what the run up to this dead line would look like and what the aftermath might be.

Given everything that's happened in the late 24th Century, its starting to look like this period might simply turn out to be Star Trek's period of great tribulation. Sort of how even in Trek lore, the 21st century seemed to see humanity lurch from one catastrophic event to another before nearly destroying ourselves in the middle of the century. All of that ugliness was apparently painful, but humanity would emerge stronger and better by the 22nd century.

We know, within canon, that the United Federation of Planets will endure in one form or another until at least the 31st century (though we have no idea about the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians etc). I like that the late 24th century is proving to be a turbulent period for everyone.

I'd love to see Esri's comment in DS9 that the Klingon Empire is dying get addressed more firmly. It seems that a crumbling Klingon Emprie and a Romulus pushed to the brink of extinction might be the very thing that leads to a stronger Federation that can endure for 1000 years.
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Old November 2 2013, 06:18 PM   #2
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
For the books, the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline…and cannot simply be ignored.
OK, maybe I just have different view but, wouldn't time have branched from the point that Nero came back in time? One branch being the same old Prime timeline we all know and love, and one branching into what we know of as the Abramverse?

That being said, the Prime timeline is still there and it will continue on. Nothing about the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline. It's just the last that we're currently aware of. The Prime timeline will continue on. It will be a timeline with no Romulus or Remus. A timeline where Spock mysteriously disappeared. I timeline where Nero, his ship and crew all vanished. But there will still be a Prime timeline, correct?

Am I missing something here?

Of course, you're right, it will be kind of hard for S&S to just ignore the supernova as if it never happened and it will drastically change things in the Prime timeline. My point is, that the supernova is not the last event in the Prime timeline. The Prime timeline will certainly continue on. It will just be drastically changed from what we currently recognize.

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Old November 2 2013, 06:20 PM   #3
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

This is a bit tricky to discuss without getting into story ideas but I would simply say that it's surely highly likely that we either get a series that reveals some hidden element of *why* it went nova and more certainly a series that pick up on the aftermath.
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Old November 2 2013, 06:23 PM   #4
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

bfollowell wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
For the books, the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline…and cannot simply be ignored.
OK, maybe I just have different view but, wouldn't time have branched from the point that Nero came back in time? One branch being the same old Prime timeline we all know and love, and one branching into what we know of as the Abramverse?

That being said, the Prime timeline is still there and it will continue on. Nothing about the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline. It's just the last that we're currently aware of. The Prime timeline will continue on. It will be a timeline with no Romulus or Remus. A timeline where Spock mysteriously disappeared. I timeline where Nero, his ship and crew all vanished. But there will still be a Prime timeline, correct?

Am I missing something here?
You are maybe over-thinking it? He's simply is saying it's the last 'official' thing we've seen on screen for that universe (so far) and isn't make a claim that this will be last thing we ever see in the books and that it fades to black.
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Old November 2 2013, 06:44 PM   #5
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
bfollowell wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
For the books, the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline…and cannot simply be ignored.
OK, maybe I just have different view but, wouldn't time have branched from the point that Nero came back in time? One branch being the same old Prime timeline we all know and love, and one branching into what we know of as the Abramverse?

That being said, the Prime timeline is still there and it will continue on. Nothing about the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline. It's just the last that we're currently aware of. The Prime timeline will continue on. It will be a timeline with no Romulus or Remus. A timeline where Spock mysteriously disappeared. I timeline where Nero, his ship and crew all vanished. But there will still be a Prime timeline, correct?

Am I missing something here?
You are maybe over-thinking it? He's simply is saying it's the last 'official' thing we've seen on screen for that universe (so far) and isn't make a claim that this will be last thing we ever see in the books and that it fades to black.
Yeah, I think what the original poster meant by "the last canonical event of the Prime Timeline" was that it is the last event that is established to have happened in the Prime Timeline by the canon, not that it is the last thing that will happen in that timeline and that it will cease to exist afterwards.
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Last edited by Sci; November 2 2013 at 07:04 PM.
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Old November 2 2013, 06:55 PM   #6
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Gotcha, now that I look back, I'm fairly certain that's exactly what Gotham Central meant. Like JoeZhang said, I believe I was over-thinking it a little bit.

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Old November 2 2013, 07:24 PM   #7
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Sci wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
bfollowell wrote: View Post

OK, maybe I just have different view but, wouldn't time have branched from the point that Nero came back in time? One branch being the same old Prime timeline we all know and love, and one branching into what we know of as the Abramverse?

That being said, the Prime timeline is still there and it will continue on. Nothing about the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline. It's just the last that we're currently aware of. The Prime timeline will continue on. It will be a timeline with no Romulus or Remus. A timeline where Spock mysteriously disappeared. I timeline where Nero, his ship and crew all vanished. But there will still be a Prime timeline, correct?

Am I missing something here?
You are maybe over-thinking it? He's simply is saying it's the last 'official' thing we've seen on screen for that universe (so far) and isn't make a claim that this will be last thing we ever see in the books and that it fades to black.
Yeah, I think what the original poster meant by "the last canonical event of the Prime Timeline" was that it is the last event that is established to have happened in the Prime Timeline by the canon, not that it is the last thing that will happen in that timeline and that it will cease to exist afterwards.
Yes that is exactly what I was saying. Thank you
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Old November 2 2013, 07:44 PM   #8
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
For the books, the Hobus Supernova is the last canonical event of the prime timeline…and cannot simply be ignored. Given than the absolute present in the novels is, I believe, 2384…that means that Romulus only has about 3 years of life left to it.

I'm wondering if the folks at Pocket Books and some of the writers have started to give any thought to what the run up to this dead line would look like and what the aftermath might be.
I'm sure the writers have given it a lot of thought, although there is some doubt as to whether the novels will be allowed to use concepts from the new movies. Four post-ST'09 books were written and then unceremoniously cancelled in 2010. Legal departments don't care about in-universe timelines - a novel featuring an event from Star Trek (2009) will need a "based on" at the front of the novel, and it would appear that Pocket Books (for whatever reason) do not have that.

It would be a crime if the supernova were skipped over, only to be spoken of in passing, akin to the other easter egg-like references to the new movies in the novelverse. It's something HUGE and should be thoroughly explored.
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Old November 2 2013, 07:48 PM   #9
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Diane Carey should write it with the same relish she wrote Enterprise novelisations.

I would enjoy such a book
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Old November 2 2013, 10:43 PM   #10
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

They can't just ditch Spock and Romulus in passing.

I don't see why the current movie powers that be would have any objections to referencing the prime timeline content of Star Trek 2009. It was their idea to 'protect' the prime timeline. Anything written would not impact the JJverse continuity anyway.

Besides, I am under the impression that tie-ins are contractually obliged to adhere to on screen 'canon'.
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Old November 2 2013, 11:51 PM   #11
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

^^ By my limited understanding of copyright law, it depends on whether or not ST09 is included in Pocket's existing license with Paramount Pictures (who retain copyright ownership of ST films), or if Pocket would require a separate licensing agreement to do a novel based in part on that film.
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Old November 3 2013, 12:05 AM   #12
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

I admit I am eager to hear an explanation for the Hobus supernova and why it was supposed to be so deadly (i.e. threatening the galaxy).
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Old November 3 2013, 12:11 AM   #13
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

Sci wrote: View Post
^^ By my limited understanding of copyright law, it depends on whether or not ST09 is included in Pocket's existing license with Paramount Pictures (who retain copyright ownership of ST films), or if Pocket would require a separate licensing agreement to do a novel based in part on that film.
Pocket/Simon & Schuster already did the four book Starfleet Academy series that took place in the 4 year span of time that ST09 skipped over (from when Kirk boarded the Academmy shuttle to Nero's escape), plus Pocket's published both novelizations, so Pocket most likely has the rights, but it would be like any other licensing agreement, if the licensor tells the licensee not to issue something, then the licensee won't, otherwise they could be taken to court for breach of contract.
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Old November 3 2013, 04:20 AM   #14
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
^^ By my limited understanding of copyright law, it depends on whether or not ST09 is included in Pocket's existing license with Paramount Pictures (who retain copyright ownership of ST films), or if Pocket would require a separate licensing agreement to do a novel based in part on that film.
Pocket/Simon & Schuster already did the four book Starfleet Academy series that took place in the 4 year span of time that ST09 skipped over (from when Kirk boarded the Academmy shuttle to Nero's escape), plus Pocket's published both novelizations, so Pocket most likely has the rights, but it would be like any other licensing agreement, if the licensor tells the licensee not to issue something, then the licensee won't, otherwise they could be taken to court for breach of contract.
It may also be possible that Pocket's license for films based on ST09 and STID only encompass Young Adult novels, not adult-marketed mass-market paperbacks.

This is all, of course, just speculation.
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Old November 3 2013, 05:10 AM   #15
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Re: UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

They did start work on the four Abramsverse novels, so at that time at least they must have had to liscense.
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