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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
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A 31 28.44%
A- 24 22.02%
B+ 21 19.27%
B 12 11.01%
B- 9 8.26%
C+ 7 6.42%
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Old March 3 2014, 01:16 AM   #211
Reverend
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

^I suddenly regret asking...

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
All those things you mentioned are not infinity gems.

Just because there are more planets doesn't mean there are more than nine realms. I would argue that everything outside the Thor universe is in Midgard. Asgard is described in the Marvel wiki as a pocket universe.
That seems at odds with the way it's portrayed in the films so far. I mean clearly it's not a planet in the normal sense, but it appears to be orbited by one (at least) and there are stars and galaxies in the sky. Indeed, Heimdall appear to look directly at where Earth is. Then there's the whole bit about the world tree being a super-galactic sized stellar nursery.

As for the others, what I was getting at was is there any overlap between the nine realms and the other cosmic civilizations besides Earth and Asgard? Like for the sake of argument: is Jotenheim bordering on Kree space? Has Galactus ever threatened Vanaheim? Do the Shi'ar trade with Alfheim. Do the Nova Corps have jurisdiction on Nifleheim etc. etc?

Clearly the Collector knows Asgardians when he sees them, while they in turn are aware of and have a means of getting to whatever corner of space he inhabits, so there's *some* overlap there.

Last edited by Reverend; March 3 2014 at 01:51 AM.
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Old March 3 2014, 01:36 AM   #212
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

I'm not sure the MCU will have access to Skrulls, Galactus or Shi'ar.

The Kree, though?
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Old March 3 2014, 01:44 AM   #213
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Yup, the end of Thor 1 shows that "Yggdrasil" is actually an emmense structure in our universe, of which 9 planets are of particular importance to the Asgard.

Both films mention Asgardians and others pre-date our universe, which could mean they travelled from another originally, but that after their creation of the disc-world of Asgard they encountered the Elves on their home of Alfheim and began the Aether conflict.

(Svartalfaheim was the home of the Dwarves in Norse myth, yet in the film, it's the home of "dark elves", maybe they removed the Dwarves and had 'light' and 'dark' elves? So yeah going with the original Alfheim and that the conflict spilled onto and maybe ruined Svartalfheim to what we see.)

After Bor's passing encountering and fighting the Frost Giants of Jötunheim and their bastardised version of the Tesseract that they (I assume) built their civilisation from, having discovered ~95% of the universe was dark energy that they could catalyse into normal energy.

The others spawned either people or something of importance to them, in Norse myth Helheim is simply a world of fire in general, their could be lava creatures there (Shown as just lava lazily in the film). Neir or some such was the 'world of corpses', maybe an old funerial world.
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Old March 3 2014, 01:56 AM   #214
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

DEWLine wrote: View Post
I'm not sure the MCU will have access to Skrulls, Galactus or Shi'ar.

The Kree, though?
I'm a little unclear as to what Marvel does and does not have the rights to. I mean if they can use Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver on the simple condition that they not be referred to as "mutants" not their parentage directly referenced, then that would appear to free up quite a lot of possibilities.

Like for example, could they use the Shi'ar and the m'kraan crystal so long they make no mention of the Phoenix?
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Old March 3 2014, 02:30 AM   #215
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Dimensions are like floors to an apartment complex.

We live on the 10th floor. There's nine floors and a lobby below us and 10 (no 13th floor however.) floors above us.

Destroying the 10th floor is not going to impact so much on the entire apartment complex of dimensional planes...

By the way...

That map of Asgard, was was from the 1983 version of the official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, which was a monthly periodical comicbook-sized encyclopaedia that eventually covered A - Z of everything marvel, and most people's opinions they had in 1983 are different from today.

The really cool thing about these reference books is that covers worked together like a jigsaw puzzle to like like this...

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/9tppk.jpg
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Old March 3 2014, 03:23 AM   #216
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Actually, I think that map's from the Deluxe Edition of TOHOTMU, December 1985.

Thanks be to the skills of Eliot R. Brown.
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Old March 3 2014, 03:36 AM   #217
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

I tossed a coin.

But considering that Asgard, and only the city limits Asgard where just the gods live has been transported to the Negative Zone, the Skies above New York and Boxton Oklahoma, methinks that Asgard is barely more than a city god forbid a planet.

Also note, that the galactic council that controls known space in the wake of the Builder Invasion... Asgard speaks for Earth.
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Old March 3 2014, 03:53 AM   #218
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Speaking of Asgard, am I imagining things, or did they greatly expand the city between the first and second movies? Maybe it's just how the shots were composed, but it felt so much bigger in Thor 2. Like there's an actual city there and not just a big golden castle/citadel thing with a really long rainbow bridge sticking out the front.
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Old March 3 2014, 03:58 AM   #219
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
(Svartalfaheim was the home of the Dwarves in Norse myth, yet in the film, it's the home of "dark elves", maybe they removed the Dwarves and had 'light' and 'dark' elves? So yeah going with the original Alfheim and that the conflict spilled onto and maybe ruined Svartalfheim to what we see.)
Pretty sure the Marvel comics also have Dark Elves as well.

Reverend wrote: View Post
I'm a little unclear as to what Marvel does and does not have the rights to. I mean if they can use Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver on the simple condition that they not be referred to as "mutants" not their parentage directly referenced, then that would appear to free up quite a lot of possibilities.

Like for example, could they use the Shi'ar and the m'kraan crystal so long they make no mention of the Phoenix?
I think the idea is what comic are they primarily associated with. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are X-Men universe, but also have a strong association with Avengers. Do the Shi'ar or the M'Kraan Crystal have much association beyond the X-Men? From what I know, I'm leaning towards "no." At least, nothing important (obviously, all Marvel stories have had crossovers).

The consensus is that the Skrulls are out and I have no reason to doubt that. Galactus is almost certainly out - being predominantly a Fantastic Four villain. Not sure about Kree. My guess is all three are Fantastic Four.
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Old March 3 2014, 05:42 AM   #220
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Here are some pictographs of Yggdrasil and the Nine Realms connected to it.





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Old March 3 2014, 05:43 AM   #221
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Wonderful map.
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Old March 3 2014, 05:52 AM   #222
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
And that's all you need to know about Cosmic Cubes.

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Old March 3 2014, 08:37 AM   #223
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

LOL!
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Old March 3 2014, 02:29 PM   #224
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

Not too informed about the Norse gods here... are these 9 realms from the comic books, or do they exist in the actual mythology? And if they exist, are they ordered the same way along the tree?
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Old March 3 2014, 02:51 PM   #225
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Re: THOR: THE DARK WORLD - Grading & Discussion

The maps are well drawn, but they seem to be depicting things a lot closer to the real Norse mythos than the films do. For one thing Jotunheim in the film was shown as a normal globe shaped planet, not a floating ring of extra-dimensional mountains around earth.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Not too informed about the Norse gods here... are these 9 realms from the comic books, or do they exist in the actual mythology? And if they exist, are they ordered the same way along the tree?
Pretty much. Notice how the home of gods and elves and the halls of the honoured dead are above, while the underworlds are...well...under.

You'd be surprised how much of what we generally consider Christian cosmology is actually Norse. Even the word "Hell". Not sure how much influence Greek & Roman mythology had on the Norse, but there appears to be a number of similarities there too.
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