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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 6 2013, 10:13 PM   #46
Maurice
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

The issue I always had with episodes like The Apple is that no one ever discusses that maybe the way of life there was originally chosen by the people. Someone built Vaal. Was it because their civilization was violent and self-destructive, so they built this machine to take care of them so they're not give into their baser natures, much like the Vulcans embracing logic? Furthermore, it is implied that it was Vaal's power which made the planet lush, and without that influence what happens to the climate?

These are some of the episode's failings, along with the unanswered questions of if there are other villages and populations, and what influence did Vaal have on them?
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Old November 6 2013, 11:03 PM   #47
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Maurice wrote: View Post
The issue I always had with episodes like The Apple is that no one ever discusses that maybe the way of life there was originally chosen by the people. Someone built Vaal. Was it because their civilization was violent and self-destructive, so they built this machine to take care of them so they're not give into their baser natures, much like the Vulcans embracing logic? Furthermore, it is implied that it was Vaal's power which made the planet lush, and without that influence what happens to the climate?

These are some of the episode's failings, along with the unanswered questions of if there are other villages and populations, and what influence did Vaal have on them?
IIRC, there is an ethical dilemma discussion btwn Spock and McCoy. All mooted/trumped by "Enterprise-in-danger," unfortunately.
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Old November 6 2013, 11:20 PM   #48
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Yeah, but they only discuss "it works for them" and "they shouldn't be slaves to a machine" without touching on WHY the situation is the way it is.
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Old November 6 2013, 11:36 PM   #49
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

I'm not much of a TNG guy. Would Picard have sacrificed the Ent-D before interfering with a culture (even a "stagnant" to borrow Kirk's opinion)?
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Old November 6 2013, 11:50 PM   #50
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

... Noe!!! Picard certainly would NOT!!!
(You have my assurances ...)
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Old November 7 2013, 01:00 AM   #51
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

As I recall, there was a DC comic where Kirk returns to the "Apple" planet several years later to discover that everything has gone to hell . . ..
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Old November 7 2013, 01:51 AM   #52
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
As I recall, there was a DC comic where Kirk returns to the "Apple" planet several years later to discover that everything has gone to hell . . ..

Good! That's what would happen. BUT -- it was pointed out to me here long ago -- he had to destroy Vaal b/c of endangered Enterprise. It wasn't just for kicks.
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Old November 7 2013, 03:50 AM   #53
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Melakon wrote: View Post
Was Grant even at McCoy's pre-mission briefing? Maybe he didn't get the memo.
I just checked, and Grant was not at the briefing!
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Old November 7 2013, 04:16 AM   #54
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Maurice wrote: View Post
The issue I always had with episodes like The Apple is that no one ever discusses that maybe the way of life there was originally chosen by the people. Someone built Vaal. Was it because their civilization was violent and self-destructive, so they built this machine to take care of them so they're not give into their baser natures, much like the Vulcans embracing logic? Furthermore, it is implied that it was Vaal's power which made the planet lush, and without that influence what happens to the climate?
I always did wonder who came along first and instituted these changes in planetary societies. This episode, and Return of the Archons, feature worlds controlled by machines bent on maintaining balance. Sounds like a sort of reverse-prime directive of someone's at work!

Maurice wrote: View Post
These are some of the episode's failings, along with the unanswered questions of if there are other villages and populations, and what influence did Vaal have on them?
Yeah, did that one village constitute the entire planets' population?!
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Old November 7 2013, 04:50 AM   #55
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

Metryq wrote: View Post
Don't start sounding like a movie writer, with performer contracts to consider, how many minutes of screen time, etc. Be an artist and include only what the story needs.

Right. Putting writers in the service of actors nearly got us Star Trek IV: Eddie Murphy Saves the Whales. That almost happened.

At least Martha Landon was a TOS woman ahead of her time, dishing out karate kicks and even flipping a native with some kind of judo move. Celeste mentioned in an interview somewhere that she was really happy to be fighting along with the guys rather than playing a girl who gets rescued.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:06 AM   #56
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Celeste mentioned in an interview somewhere that she was really happy to be fighting along with the guys rather than playing a girl who gets rescued.
Yeah, opportunities like that were rare for actresses then. Still are to a degree, but not as badly. Ripley in Alien was possibly the turning point.

I was watching the first season of Adventures of Superman (c. 1952) the last few days, and Lois (Phyllis Coates) mostly just screams a lot and gets rescued. Phyllis could scream really well.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:12 AM   #57
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
At least Martha Landon was a TOS woman ahead of her time, dishing out karate kicks and even flipping a native with some kind of judo move. Celeste mentioned in an interview somewhere that she was really happy to be fighting along with the guys rather than playing a girl who gets rescued.
Yeah, she kicked ass.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:20 AM   #58
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.
"The Galileo Seven" is another offender. Great episode all around, but that ending where everyone starts laughing hysterically feels so out of place.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:29 PM   #59
Grant
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Was Grant even at McCoy's pre-mission briefing? Maybe he didn't get the memo.
I just checked, and Grant was not at the briefing!
They set that poor guy up!
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Old November 7 2013, 10:33 PM   #60
Grant
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Re: Peeling "The Apple"

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.
"The Galileo Seven" is another offender. Great episode all around, but that ending where everyone starts laughing hysterically feels so out of place.
Horrible, scotty laughed himself literally to tears---"too bad about those 3 what were their names?"
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