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Old November 8 2013, 02:17 PM   #61
mickmike
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
.

I'm the only person in this thread who has acknowledged that I'm wrong about things. The comments about my ego have come from those who can't seem to handle it that some dipshit on the internet doesn't think of their posts as sage-like advice that should be followed to the letter. Yes, I'm the one who is being egotistical and projecting.

I don't think people are saying that you are egotistical for not taking their advice. I think people are saying that you are egotistical and displaying a high degree of narcisissm for thinking that a guy who you don't know and who doesn't know you and may not be actually concerned with your existence if he does, is trying to prevent you from going out with his ex girlfriend. Who, by the way you haven't asked out yet.

You have based this on a series of photos posted on facebook. In these photo's you have inferred from this guy's body language or something that he is possessive, potentially violent, and for some reason threatened by you.

The issue doesn't have any basis in fact, it's a fiction you have concoted in your mind. I think quite a few people have provided solid advice regarding how to respond to this situation despite there not actually being a situation, but you've rejected that advice.

I'm not sure what you want from the rest of us?
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Old November 8 2013, 02:35 PM   #62
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
Experience is meaningless. People learn the wrong lessons from experience all the time. Saying "I have experience" as the sole support for an argument is even more meaningless.

In order for it to mean anything, one has to demonstrate that their experience was meaningful. I see this all the time with non-monogamy. Someone comes along and says "I had a threesome once and things turned out horribly" and infer from this that all people who choose non-monogamy are doomed to repeated failure, completely dismissing that lots of people are successful with various forms of non-monogamy, and that strictly monogamous relationships fail all the time as well. I listen to people that establish credibility.
No way do I have time to respond to everything that's gone on in this thread, but I did want to comment on this.

Although I see the point you are trying to make, the threesome example is terrible. It's like a straight man saying, "I had sex with a guy once, it was awful." Number one, it's absurdly reductive (turning a complex identity into a single sexual event), and secondly, it's someone commenting on an identity they don't share. It'd be like me pontificating on what it's like to be a lesbian, as if I have any Earthly idea beyond the accounts of friends and strangers. What you're talking about has nothing to do with experience. You seem to be assuming no one here has experience because they haven't spelled it out for you, otherwise you are invalidating their experiences because they don't paint the picture you want.

Reading through this thread, you talked about being poly a few times, but being poly seems to have no bearing on what's going on here. As far as I can tell, you aren't involved with anyone right now, and your issues with the girl in question don't revolve around non-monogamy but the role of her ex in her life. I'm sure others here have been in that situation. Even I have, myself.

You seem to be aware that your jealous overreactions are unwarranted, especially since you aren't even dating this woman. From what I read in your last post, it sounds like you want to get to the bottom of his behavior. Ultimately, that is not your problem nor your responsibility. If you want to make a go of it with the woman you like, do it. If her ex interferes, you have a few options:

1. Ask her to talk to him and tell him to back off and leave you alone.
2. Deal with the fact that this person is part of her life and you have to figure out how to navigate that.
3. Don't be with her anymore.

Which one is not an option? "Sit down with the guy and have a little chat." If you are at the point where he is actively interfering in your relationship, the last thing that's going to help is you having a talk about it with him. Either he's trying to break you up, in which case talking to him plays right into his hands--it gives him an opening to attack you directly--or you are totally imagining what's going on, in which case he's going to think you're insane and probably tell her you're insane and it's not going to work out well for anyone. Maybe it would be an option at some point in the future, if things are going well with her and he is still having issues with his new role in her life. Both of you could talk to him and find a way to be friends. But right now? No.

Although there are situations where exes and new love interests can get along with each other, rarely does it work when it begins so adversarially. It requires everyone in the situation to be mature adults. So far, I'm not sure about the woman (don't know enough about her), but you and the ex (from what you've said of him) both fail that metric.

You must also be aware that starting a thread to discuss these issues while using such dramatic, over-the-top language would give people a very strange (read: negative) impression of you, right? You said you'd like to think that effective communication might work, but what I've seen from you in this thread has not been very "effective." It's been hyperbolic, defensive, hostile, passive-aggressive, and pretty much anything but "effective." If your goal was to rile people up and come off as some kind of jealous nut, mission accomplished. If your goal was to have a reasonable discussion of jealousy, communication, and building relationships, that ship blew up on the launch pad.

I don't think you're a bad guy. I think you're a bit too focused on your image rather than who you are, as a person. Instead of communicating honestly, you put on a show. I don't think that's beneficial to anyone, least of all yourself. You say you recognize your issues with jealous and possessiveness. Awareness is step one. What are you doing to change it? How are you planning to proceed with the woman you like, if you intend to proceed at all?

If you want to discuss any of this, discuss it. Two pages of you going on the counterattack against people impugning your fashion sense and personality traits has been really tedious to read.
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Old November 8 2013, 04:48 PM   #63
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

mickmike wrote: View Post
I don't think people are saying that you are egotistical for not taking their advice. I think people are saying that you are egotistical and displaying a high degree of narcisissm for thinking that a guy who you don't know and who doesn't know you and may not be actually concerned with your existence if he does, is trying to prevent you from going out with his ex girlfriend. Who, by the way you haven't asked out yet.
The guy has not done anything wrong and has not demonstrated himself to be a problem. However, what I have observed gives some indication that he may become one. Whether or not this particular guy is this particular way I have no way of determining at this point. As for my life in general, it's something I've dealt with before, somewhat poorly, and it is most likely something I will have to deal with again, and I'd like to be better at it. If this particular guy is not going to act on jealous, possessive urges, it won't be a problem. If he is, then I would like to be equipped to deal with the situation.

mickmike wrote: View Post
You have based this on a series of photos posted on facebook. In these photo's you have inferred from this guy's body language or something that he is possessive, potentially violent, and for some reason threatened by you.
I have inferred that these things are possible, not that they are likely to be true or assume them to be true.

mickmike wrote: View Post
The issue doesn't have any basis in fact, it's a fiction you have concoted in your mind.
This is completely true and I've never said otherwise.

mickmike wrote: View Post
I think quite a few people have provided solid advice regarding how to respond to this situation despite there not actually being a situation, but you've rejected that advice.
People have distorted what I've said, exaggerated speculation into certainty, ignored any sense of context, and have told me that the way I have expressed myself in this thread is probably not how I should act all the time. There was never any possibility of that happening. They then when on to insist that, because I decided that what they said wasn't applicable, they insisted that the OP is an all-encompassing example of my complete persona and I'm therefore wrong about everything. If I actually acted the way people are insisting that I do, I would be in complete agreement.

mickmike wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what you want from the rest of us?
Really? I've specifically stated it several times. Of course, the parts that make me seem like a dipshit stand out the most.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Although I see the point you are trying to make, the threesome example is terrible. It's like a straight man saying, "I had sex with a guy once, it was awful." Number one, it's absurdly reductive (turning a complex identity into a single sexual event), and secondly, it's someone commenting on an identity they don't share. It'd be like me pontificating on what it's like to be a lesbian, as if I have any Earthly idea beyond the accounts of friends and strangers. What you're talking about has nothing to do with experience.
Yes, exactly. It was an extreme example meant to illustrate my point. It is experience, but it doesn't really apply to anything.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You seem to be assuming no one here has experience because they haven't spelled it out for you, otherwise you are invalidating their experiences because they don't paint the picture you want.
If the experience isn't quantified and qualified, I have no way of knowing if its applicable.

A good example is the people saying "just ask her out already." I can probably quantify this for myself. Most people hesitate because they're afraid of rejection, and then later regret that hesitation because they may have missed out on something. That's not why I'm doing it, and their experience doesn't apply.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Reading through this thread, you talked about being poly a few times, but being poly seems to have no bearing on what's going on here.
it doesn't.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
As far as I can tell, you aren't involved with anyone right now, and your issues with the girl in question don't revolve around non-monogamy but the role of her ex in her life. I'm sure others here have been in that situation. Even I have, myself.
The issues involve past experiences. There are no issues with this particular girl, only the vague possibility of potential issues.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You seem to be aware that your jealous overreactions are unwarranted, especially since you aren't even dating this woman.
My jealous overreactions are directed at this kind of thing in general. It was more of a "if this were to happen, then I would feel jealousy" kind of thing. It has not happened, so I have not. My posts have reflected thinking, not believing or doing.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
From what I read in your last post, it sounds like you want to get to the bottom of his behavior. Ultimately, that is not your problem nor your responsibility.
Only insofar as understanding the behavior so I can deal with it effectively.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
If you want to make a go of it with the woman you like, do it. If her ex interferes, you have a few options:

1. Ask her to talk to him and tell him to back off and leave you alone.
2. Deal with the fact that this person is part of her life and you have to figure out how to navigate that.
3. Don't be with her anymore.
Yes, exactly. This thread was meant to be about exploring option #2 if #1 fails and I don't really like option #3. Instead it became about how I should already have this figured out and, because I don't, I'm a big dumb ass.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Which one is not an option? "Sit down with the guy and have a little chat." If you are at the point where he is actively interfering in your relationship, the last thing that's going to help is you having a talk about it with him. Either he's trying to break you up, in which case talking to him plays right into his hands--it gives him an opening to attack you directly--or you are totally imagining what's going on, in which case he's going to think you're insane and probably tell her you're insane and it's not going to work out well for anyone. Maybe it would be an option at some point in the future, if things are going well with her and he is still having issues with his new role in her life. Both of you could talk to him and find a way to be friends. But right now? No.
None of this applies to right now. He's not a problem right now. I'm trying to prepare for it when it does happen again, either with this situation or others.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Although there are situations where exes and new love interests can get along with each other, rarely does it work when it begins so adversarially. It requires everyone in the situation to be mature adults. So far, I'm not sure about the woman (don't know enough about her), but you and the ex (from what you've said of him) both fail that metric.
When I attacked him, I made him the embodiment of my past experiences, I wasn't really attacking him. if I accused him of doing the things I thought he did, that would be different. I was thinking out loud, not actually confronting him or accepting my thoughts as facts. He has done little, if anything. If everything had actually happened, we'd have both failed.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You must also be aware that starting a thread to discuss these issues while using such dramatic, over-the-top language would give people a very strange (read: negative) impression of you, right? You said you'd like to think that effective communication might work, but what I've seen from you in this thread has not been very "effective." It's been hyperbolic, defensive, hostile, passive-aggressive, and pretty much anything but "effective." If your goal was to rile people up and come off as some kind of jealous nut, mission accomplished. If your goal was to have a reasonable discussion of jealousy, communication, and building relationships, that ship blew up on the launch pad.
You seem to have no problem seeing this thread in it's proper context, I wonder why everyone else is having such trouble.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Instead of communicating honestly, you put on a show.
I do that here. Usually it goes over pretty well. I'm a little more calm in reality.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You say you recognize your issues with jealous and possessiveness. Awareness is step one. What are you doing to change it?
Usually when I experience jealousy or possessiveness I step back and ask myself what's triggering the feelings, and then try to address those issues. From what I understand, this is probably the best way to go about things.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
If you want to discuss any of this, discuss it. Two pages of you going on the counterattack against people impugning your fashion sense and personality traits has been really tedious to read.
Yeah, this probably wasn't the best time to try to be entertaining. While I've been entertained, it clearly failed as a whole.
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Old November 8 2013, 05:01 PM   #64
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote:
Yeah, this probably wasn't the best time to try to be entertaining. While I've been entertained, it clearly failed as a whole.
This makes me think you only started the thread because you wanted people to entertain you. You don't want anyone's advice at all it seems.
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Old November 9 2013, 03:10 AM   #65
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Melakon wrote: View Post
Kommander wrote:
Yeah, this probably wasn't the best time to try to be entertaining. While I've been entertained, it clearly failed as a whole.
This makes me think you only started the thread because you wanted people to entertain you. You don't want anyone's advice at all it seems.
He's full of himself. He doesn't understand much of anything that anyone has posted here and it's clear that he doesn't want to.

All well. Lesson learned. I'm done with these types of threads. I'm just glad I'm not one of his professors.
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Old November 9 2013, 03:27 AM   #66
mickmike
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

i would take it on a thread by thread basis. Some people on here genuinely need or want help at times, others just want you to fuel their narcisissm.
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Old November 9 2013, 08:53 AM   #67
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

This makes me think you only started the thread because you wanted people to entertain you. You don't want anyone's advice at all it seems.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I definitely am an attention whore. However, it that was all that was, I have better ways of getting it, i.e.: every other post I've made that is outside this and other threads about dating.

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
He's full of himself. He doesn't understand much of anything that anyone has posted here and it's clear that he doesn't want to.
I listened to some people, many of them saying similar things to what you said. The difference was, they were less hostile.

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
All well. Lesson learned. I'm done with these types of threads.
You will be missed.

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
I'm just glad I'm not one of his professors.
I am in 100% agreement with this.

mickmike wrote: View Post
i would take it on a thread by thread basis. Some people on here genuinely need or want help at times, others just want you to fuel their narcisissm.
In this case, probably 20% narcissism, 15% attempted entertainment, 60% "I could use some input here," and 5% Teh Baba.

Also, after my experiences earlier, I have decided to accept all criticism regarding the "stop hesitating and ask her out already" aspect of this thread.

One of my bosses at a previous job had an "I passed the bar exam" party at this bar everyone from that place of employment goes to. It was an after-work thing, so everyone left by 10, except for me, because I was too drunk to drive home at that point. So, I got talking to random people, and then spent a good deal of time talking to a woman I found quite attractive. She dropped "I'm single" into the conversation three or four times, and I understood why. However, when she was ready to leave, said bye to me, waited about 30 seconds, and then said bye to me again, rather than asking for her phone number like any reasonable person would, I instead said "bye." Now I'll never see her again.

What makes it worse is that I had a very similar conversation with a different woman I also found very attractive earlier in the evening. I did manage to exchange numbers with that woman, but 50% failure is still failure.

So yes, hesitation is bad and I will freely take shit for it.
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Old November 9 2013, 11:28 AM   #68
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
I listened to some people, many of them saying similar things to what you said. The difference was, they were less hostile.
Hostile? Dude, you are the very definition of passive aggressive. That, combined with your ego and the way you project your insecurities on others and this dating situation of yours, and all your "I already know this" and "I already acknowledged that" and "I wasn't really hating on the guy I was just being humorous" and "Experience is meaningless"....that's your real problem. Smokescreens. Pseudo-intellectual doubletalk. It's all one big excuse.

Friendly advice was met with derision, dismissiveness, and hostility. Not just me, but others. So I called you on your ego. Hostile? It was my attempt to get you to see that YOU are creating most of these problems in your social life YOURSELF with your behavior and the WAY you interact with people.

Hesitation is the least of your problems. If you start to change yourself and how you interact, and stop thinking that everything and everyone is a threat, or full of shit if they present an idea contrary to yours, then you might find some more success in your social endeavors.

People have been where you are. Stop acting so angsty.

And no, this is not me being "hostile" because you aren't listening to my "sage" advice. This is me calling you on your own bullshit so you can start doing something about it. Not threatening. Not attacking. Just telling you from experience.

Unless you think it's meaningless. In which case....ah well. You'll figure it out eventually.
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Old November 9 2013, 06:12 PM   #69
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

I'm lucky I suppose. My lady friend says she loves me--she just can't stand me.

You know how some folks have been married too long, are separated, but meet just every once in awhile to catch up, have a little fun, then go back to their own lives? Our relationship kinda started that way. She's been married twice and got mis-used twice--and I'm not a romantic--but we are comfortable.

There is an old saying about never dating your co-workers...fah! ONLY date your co-workers. When you work hard for years, and are stable and trustworthy--it counts elsewhere.

I don't take myself seriously. She was kinda dating a guy who I thought was odd, but that didn't last because she is very busy--and is a momma's girl. You learn to let things go.

Love hatred--each feels new to the person feeling them..but it has all been done--and it is best to have driving interests that can out-live any relationship..politics work, space advocacy...This may seem cold, and folks can say we ar not what we do--but a sense of mastery also helps in relationships so that one doesn't feel wanting.
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Old November 11 2013, 11:44 AM   #70
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Oh jeez. I remember when I used to do these sorts of threads. 'It was meant to be entertaining'. Yep, sure was...
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Old November 11 2013, 10:16 PM   #71
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

I've presented my take on the issue. I think Kommander has a good clear view of the situation, but now it's time to act.

I agree with the old saying, recognizing the problem is half the battle. You just need to take that next step, and that's the big stumbling block at this point.

My sense is that all of this humming and hawing, debating, etc, is really an attempt to change the subject rather than making the necessary changes in his life.

As for the fedora, well, I think people should wear what they want. Each person should choose their own style. It's true that some styles will put others off, but as long as he is aware of that, no problem. As far as I'm concerned, the fedora is a non-issue in this discussion.

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Old November 11 2013, 11:56 PM   #72
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

You say that now but what if it was a Fez?
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Old November 12 2013, 12:30 AM   #73
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

To quote the Doctor "Fezzes are cool", but at the end of the day I'' echo what Mr. Awe said and say I think you should dress in a style you feel comfortable wearing. Not everyone suits a particular style.

If someone wants to change their style great so long as it is something they want to do, rather than what they feel they need to do to impress others.
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Old November 12 2013, 12:32 AM   #74
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

I think we all agree people should wear what they want. It was Kommander's demand that we all agree he looked good in the fedora that people reacted to. Wear what you want, but don't expect everyone to like it.
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Old November 12 2013, 01:06 AM   #75
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

teacake wrote: View Post
I think we all agree people should wear what they want.
Unless it's a fat guy in a Speedo.
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