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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 13 2013, 05:50 PM   #976
JarodRussell
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Too bad Space Seed and TWOK weren't written by Harlan Ellison. Now he would definitely find out if they ripped him off or not.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:33 PM   #977
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
...I liked Pulaski much better. Crusher didn't really bring much to the dynamic.
I put great sentimental value on bringing back Diana Muldaur in the role of Dr. Pulaski because of her guest roles in TOS. But her Pulaski was just too stiff and formal for me - compared to someone genially familiar like DeForest Kelly's McCoy. I wanted Pulaski to loosen up, and I was never sure whether it was the character or the actress doing poorly at times. That was "season 1" for her so maybe she would have evolved over time to be more than she was.

As for Beverly Crusher, her best and quintessential moment for me was when Q zapped her into a yapping irish setter for a moment. That was often the true essence of her character. She was frequently shrill, as Q described, and much too prone to poor judgement because her idealism overruled common sense and the reality of moment all too often. She might not have brought much to the dynamic because it was just too easy to dismiss her for being unrealistic. I understand it's the writers doing those things, so maybe I blame them for writing her poorly more than Gates McFadden's performance. But I always thought she seemed to walk funny, as if she was constantly aware that she was a model on a fashion runway. Doctors don't walk like fashion models - but actresses might. It was out of character.
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Old December 13 2013, 08:13 PM   #978
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
...I liked Pulaski much better. Crusher didn't really bring much to the dynamic.
I put great sentimental value on bringing back Diana Muldaur in the role of Dr. Pulaski because of her guest roles in TOS. But her Pulaski was just too stiff and formal for me - compared to someone genially familiar like DeForest Kelly's McCoy. I wanted Pulaski to loosen up, and I was never sure whether it was the character or the actress doing poorly at times. That was "season 1" for her so maybe she would have evolved over time to be more than she was.
Actually, I don't know if it was The actress, or the writers giving her character development, or the writers finally finding a better balance, but, Pulaski actually did start loosening up by the end of her Season, IMHO
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Old December 13 2013, 08:55 PM   #979
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
...I liked Pulaski much better. Crusher didn't really bring much to the dynamic.
I put great sentimental value on bringing back Diana Muldaur in the role of Dr. Pulaski because of her guest roles in TOS. But her Pulaski was just too stiff and formal for me - compared to someone genially familiar like DeForest Kelly's McCoy. I wanted Pulaski to loosen up, and I was never sure whether it was the character or the actress doing poorly at times. That was "season 1" for her so maybe she would have evolved over time to be more than she was.
Actually, I don't know if it was The actress, or the writers giving her character development, or the writers finally finding a better balance, but, Pulaski actually did start loosening up by the end of her Season, IMHO
I'm pretty sure it was entirely deliberate that she was stiff and brusque when first introduced - I mean: blowing off reporting to the captain when she comes on board? Over the course of several episodes, though—developing a good working relationship with Picard, overcoming her initial perception of Data, developing a friendship with Worf—I'd say Pulaski's character arc involved loosening up quite a bit. Of course, she remained someone who did not mince words when something needed saying, but I didn't see that as a negative attribute.
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Old December 13 2013, 11:43 PM   #980
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
No dramatic device (troupe or otherwise) can do work on its own.


It's almost like speaking of it in this way is a figure of speech or something.

And you know, I'm actually not going to explain the difference between figurative and literal speech to you, which is what replying to this rather bizarre post would consist of. It is, however, a pretty fundamental concept which you had better learn about if you ever want to lecture people about artistic criticism and word choice and be taken seriously.

(And it's trope, not troupe. Subtle but important distinction. )
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Old December 13 2013, 11:58 PM   #981
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure it was entirely deliberate that she was stiff and brusque when first introduced - I mean: blowing off reporting to the captain when she comes on board? Over the course of several episodes, though—developing a good working relationship with Picard, overcoming her initial perception of Data, developing a friendship with Worf—I'd say Pulaski's character arc involved loosening up quite a bit. Of course, she remained someone who did not mince words when something needed saying, but I didn't see that as a negative attribute.
Pulaski had personality, which is more than I can say about Dr Crusher.
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Old December 14 2013, 12:18 AM   #982
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
From what I understand, McFadden was gone because of a conflict with Maurice Hurley and once he left, Berman decided to bring back McFadden.
We know that now, yes, but not when Roddenberry made his very public, angry statement that I was quoting.

Additionally, Muldaur did not return to TNG because she had not signed a standard five-year contract. She told producers she wished to be unavailable for at least the first three episodes of Season Three, in order to do the reunion telemovie, "The Return of McCloud", and they suddenly needed another replacement CMO for the scripts about to go into production. Bringing back McFadden turned out to be a fortuitous solution to several problems.
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Old December 14 2013, 03:47 AM   #983
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigKrampus wrote: View Post
I'm actually not going to explain the difference between figurative and literal speech to you, which is what replying to this rather bizarre post would consist of.
I thought that the part of CorporalClegg's post that I quoted, wherein he correctly identifies that words like uninspired, when used of writing, are in fact meant to refer to the writing process, and he correctly points out that the warp core death scene in fact was adapted, was spot-on, except as noted below. What is there in that part of the post that could be called bizarre?

However, on second reading, I see something that I missed the first time, which is that I think that both CorporalClegg and BigJake are wrong about what "tired writing" means. I've always understood "tired writing" to be synonymous with "overused writing", and I suspect that, in that, tired is a figure of speech meant to apply to the reader, as in I'm tired of reading this sort of thing! Still, CC is right that it doesn't refer to the writing itself, except grammatically. I could be wrong about this, though (and maybe the figure of speech is that words get tired from being overused).

Nevertheless, CC spends much more time discussing what lazy writing means, and I agree completely with what he said about that.
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Old December 14 2013, 03:52 AM   #984
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Coach Comet wrote: View Post
Nevertheless, CC spends much more time discussing what lazy writing means, and I agree completely with what he said there.
Could be I'm being too hard on CC. His post about "lazy writing" looked to me essentially like a lengthy denial of the possibility that propositions about a piece of "writing" can refer to the text instead of the writing process, which if so seems too completely absurd to require rebuttal. But maybe I'm misreading him.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:12 AM   #985
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Belz... wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
You wouldn't have used him at all, but you would have used him differently. But if you wouldn't have used him at all, how could you have used him...

Norman, coordinate.
I have no idea what I was really trying to say, there. Take your pick, apparently.

I guess I was trying to say two things simultaneously and my brain got mixed up.
That happens sometimes.

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
...I liked Pulaski much better. Crusher didn't really bring much to the dynamic.
As for Beverly Crusher, her best and quintessential moment for me was when Q zapped her into a yapping irish setter for a moment. That was often the true essence of her character.
They should have left her that way.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:30 AM   #986
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
From what I understand, McFadden was gone because of a conflict with Maurice Hurley and once he left, Berman decided to bring back McFadden.
We know that now, yes, but not when Roddenberry made his very public, angry statement that I was quoting.

Additionally, Muldaur did not return to TNG because she had not signed a standard five-year contract. She told producers she wished to be unavailable for at least the first three episodes of Season Three, in order to do the reunion telemovie, "The Return of McCloud", and they suddenly needed another replacement CMO for the scripts about to go into production. Bringing back McFadden turned out to be a fortuitous solution to several problems.
Wasn't aware of the telemovie thing, I always thought it was just that she wanted to move onto other things so with that and Hurley leaving opened the door for McFadden's return.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:58 AM   #987
CorporalClegg
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigKrampus wrote: View Post
Could be I'm being too hard on CC. His post about "lazy writing" looked to me essentially like a lengthy denial of the possibility that propositions about a piece of "writing" can refer to the text instead of the writing process,
I really don't see how I did that. I was only referring to those specific examples. There are infinite adjectives used in analytical writing that can refer to the artist or the work. "Lazy" just isn't one of them.

Part of the problem is, it's like there's this salt shaker out there filled with critical adjectives and adverbs intended specifically for internet use, and people sprinkle them with little care and plenty of exuberance. "Lazy" is one such word.

"Hack" is another one that drives me completely bonkers. It's not a synonym for bad or untalented.

As far as using them figuratively, well that's fine. Except using a figurative meaning beyond a word's literal meaning in attempt to appeal to emotion is like the definition of loaded language, which redirects all the way back around to my initial point.

Anyway, this whole discussion has literally made my head explode. No really, there are bits and pieces everywhere, and I'm too lazy to pick them up.
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Old December 14 2013, 05:53 PM   #988
Set Harth
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Belz... wrote: View Post
Can a company rip itself off ?
Is this the Mitt Romney "corporations are people" thing?
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Old December 14 2013, 06:12 PM   #989
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Can a company rip itself off ?
Is this the Mitt Romney "corporations are people" thing?
No, it's an if I own it, its mine thing. If the Ford Motor Company wants to reintroduce the Bronco, using elements from the previous model, they aren't stealing because they own the name and designs for the Bronco.
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Old December 14 2013, 06:24 PM   #990
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Since you seem to have missed the point of the Romney reference, I'm not talking about intellectual property issues at the corporate level. I'm talking about a person copying or ripping off the work of another person. No legal issues involved.
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