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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 3 2013, 08:27 PM   #166
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Cara007 wrote: View Post
I love your Star Wars reference about Lucas taking the audience on a journey.

A new Hope: Luke discovers he is a special kid. he leaves home to go on a very enchanting adventure.

Empire Strikes Back: Luke learns the awful truth about him and you know who.

Return of the Jedi: Luke comes to term with who he is and who he should be. he also gives his father a chance at redemption.

The Last 2 trek films has been about revenge and revenge. I hope we get something different in the third film.

I adored the 2009 film (one of the best Trek and sci-fi film ever and perhaps Orci and Kurtzman's best work)

I liked the 2013 film.

I want to love the 2016 film.
If Star Trek and Into Darkness are about revenge, then the Star Wars OT is about Vader and Palpatine trying to conquer the galaxy.
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Old November 4 2013, 03:11 AM   #167
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
I would just hate to have a Trek movie all 2001 like with huge science and dramatic edge of galaxy god computer hard sci fi stuff. I don't want my Trek hard sci fi.
Oh, heaven forbid that science fiction should include any actual science!
How does teacock's statement translate into "no science"? Star Trek is not hard sci-fi. Never really has been. Space and science are just part of the setting not the driving force behind the stories.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:00 AM   #168
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
For example, what was the narrative purpose of that moment where Kirk asks McCoy what Spock would do if Kirk was in Spock's position? McCoy said he'd leave Kirk to die as if to imply that Spock would under no circumstance violate any rule even if it meant saving the life of someone important. There is no moment in this film that pays off this exchange nor is there any moment where Spock himself violates any kind of rule to save Kirk in the end. It's a long drawn out moment that never pays off.
That would have been a more interesting pay off, but there's already a problem with the set up itself. Spock is helping to save the natives from a natural disaster, which means he's already violating the prime directive, yet he insists that Kirk shouldn't come and save him because that would violate the prime directive? It probably would have worked better if the writers decided not to adopt the TNG model of the prime directive, so that the only violation made was exposing the natives to the Enterprise.
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Old November 4 2013, 07:35 AM   #169
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
I would just hate to have a Trek movie all 2001 like with huge science and dramatic edge of galaxy god computer hard sci fi stuff. I don't want my Trek hard sci fi.
Oh, heaven forbid that science fiction should include any actual science!
How does teacock's statement translate into "no science"? Star Trek is not hard sci-fi. Never really has been. Space and science are just part of the setting not the driving force behind the stories.
I took the meaning of the post to mean, "Please don't bore me with science. Just give me the adventure, and if you have to ignore fundamental scientific principles, that's fine by me."

If that's a misunderstanding, feel free to correct me.

There's nothing wrong with hard science fiction. If there was, there wouldn't have been much of it written over the decades.
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Old November 4 2013, 08:02 AM   #170
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Hard sci-fi and Star Trek don't play well together.
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Old November 4 2013, 08:40 AM   #171
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
There's nothing wrong with hard science fiction. If there was, there wouldn't have been much of it written over the decades.
"Hard science fiction" is a niche that doesn't belong in a big budget motion picture.

Also, just because a thing exists, even in abundance, does not make it right or valid.
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Old November 4 2013, 09:31 AM   #172
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
There's nothing wrong with hard science fiction. If there was, there wouldn't have been much of it written over the decades.
"Hard science fiction" is a niche that doesn't belong in a big budget motion picture.
Of course not. That's why everyone hated the fact that 2001: A Space Odyssey tried to be scientifically accurate as regards sounds in space (among other things).*

*I acknowledge that I don't know what that movie's budget was, or if it was considered "big" for its time.
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Old November 4 2013, 11:15 AM   #173
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
That's why everyone hated the fact that 2001: A Space Odyssey tried to be scientifically accurate as regards sounds in space (among other things).
And that is why I have always believed Firefly to be a documentary.
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Old November 4 2013, 11:20 AM   #174
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.



Firefly was entertaining, and I've enjoyed watching Nathan Fillion ever since he played Joey Buchanan on One Life to Live. But that show was no documentary.
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Old November 4 2013, 11:23 AM   #175
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
There's nothing wrong with hard science fiction. If there was, there wouldn't have been much of it written over the decades.
"Hard science fiction" is a niche that doesn't belong in a big budget motion picture.
Of course not. That's why everyone hated the fact that 2001: A Space Odyssey tried to be scientifically accurate as regards sounds in space (among other things).*

*I acknowledge that I don't know what that movie's budget was, or if it was considered "big" for its time.
Everybody hated no such thing. You may as well have said that you acknowledge that you don't really have any idea what people who saw 2001 in the theater hated about it.
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Old November 4 2013, 12:00 PM   #176
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
"Hard science fiction" is a niche that doesn't belong in a big budget motion picture.
Of course not. That's why everyone hated the fact that 2001: A Space Odyssey tried to be scientifically accurate as regards sounds in space (among other things).*

*I acknowledge that I don't know what that movie's budget was, or if it was considered "big" for its time.
Everybody hated no such thing. You may as well have said that you acknowledge that you don't really have any idea what people who saw 2001 in the theater hated about it.
You have failed to recognize that I was being sarcastic. I should have added the appropriate smiley to indicate that.
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Old November 4 2013, 12:02 PM   #177
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

I hated it because it was boring as all crap.

The silence in space though, that was kind of peaceful.
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Old November 4 2013, 12:11 PM   #178
Timewalker
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

The movie did inspire some artists to do some rather cute Monolith comics, though. In fact, I have a couple of ones where Michael Goodwin combines TOS and 2001 - Who Was That Monolith I Saw You With? and Son of Monolith.
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Old November 4 2013, 12:36 PM   #179
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Of course not. That's why everyone hated the fact that 2001: A Space Odyssey tried to be scientifically accurate as regards sounds in space (among other things).*

*I acknowledge that I don't know what that movie's budget was, or if it was considered "big" for its time.
Everybody hated no such thing. You may as well have said that you acknowledge that you don't really have any idea what people who saw 2001 in the theater hated about it.
You have failed to recognize that I was being sarcastic. I should have added the appropriate smiley to indicate that.
Oh, OK.

But, you know, 2001 was exceptional, so it's not like you can easily use it as a film indicative of any kind of trend, especially any kind of bandwagon trend.

Plus, even if it weren't the exception to almost every rule in movie making, it was released over four decades ago, so that doesn't really tell us anything about what today's audiences want in terms of hard science fiction.

Gravity, on the other hand, probably tells us a whole lot more, but I would also respect the opinion that Gravity isn't science fiction. Although I think Gravity is science fiction, it's certainly not the same kind of science fiction as 2001, Silent Running, or Moon, and nor is it in the same category as either Primer or Source Code, all five of which at least arguably are examples of hard science fiction films (note that there are two from Duncan Jones).

Source Code proves that (arguably) hard science fiction can be commercially successful, but that film also is all kinds of exceptional.
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Old November 4 2013, 12:46 PM   #180
Timewalker
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

Everybody hated no such thing. You may as well have said that you acknowledge that you don't really have any idea what people who saw 2001 in the theater hated about it.
You have failed to recognize that I was being sarcastic. I should have added the appropriate smiley to indicate that.
Oh, OK.

But, you know, 2001 was exceptional, so it's not like you can easily use it as a film indicative of any kind of trend, especially any kind of bandwagon trend.

Plus, even if it weren't the exception to almost every rule in movie making, it was released over four decades ago, so that doesn't really tell us anything about what today's audiences want in terms of hard science fiction.

Gravity, on the other hand, probably tells us a whole lot more, but I would also respect the opinion that Gravity isn't science fiction. Although I think Gravity is science fiction, it's certainly not the same kind of science fiction as 2001, Silent Running, or Moon, and nor is it in the same category as either Primer or Source Code, all five of which at least arguably are examples of hard science fiction films (note that there are two from Duncan Jones).

Source Code proves that (arguably) hard science fiction can be commercially successful, but that film also is all kinds of exceptional.
All I know about Gravity is what I read when I looked it up. The site spoiled the entire plot, so there's not much point in my seeing it. Some astronauts said it was reasonably accurate, and others disagreed. As for me, I'd ask Chris Hadfield's opinion. After all, he was in charge of the International Space Station.
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