RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,904
Posts: 5,477,449
Members: 25,051
Currently online: 668
Newest member: GrammaticalFict

TrekToday headlines

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old January 22 2014, 06:11 PM   #436
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Holy fuck the Yankees/Red Sox shit slinging in here is getting tiresome.
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 06:31 PM   #437
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
There is no where else to get a young arm for the Yankees.
Certainly true. Was hoping the Yankees would fail to get him, but only to see them shut out and forced to overpay a retread, not because I'm afraid of him per se.

Honestly, if the Project 189 thing was bullshit from the start, Darvish would have been a much better pickup, and helped last year as well. That's kinda where those comments come from, those kinds of decisions. Or letting Russell Martin go for peanuts in favor of having essentially ME catching/hitting up there. In retrospect, if you were going to pay the tax anyway, team could have been much better right now...

I see this as very little risk financially. His jersey sale are going to go through the roof, here and in Japan.
Unfortunately, baseball doesn't work like that. You'll get a little money, I guess, but about 1/30th of what you're thinking of. Hats/Jerseys/etc. are all through MLB and split amongst all teams. Same (poor) logic was quoted about DiceK to start, and debunked. Only way to get money to yourselves is to sell additional ads/stadium space to Japanese companies, or figure out a way to do tours to boost ticket sales. Would think the Yankees already have that market pretty tapped out, unless it dried up after Matsui went away and you couldn't get any back with Ichiro.

Either way, that big financial boost isn't coming, you're on the hook for 22M and change for 7 years. Unless he opts out after 4 I suppose.
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 07:03 PM   #438
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
There is no where else to get a young arm for the Yankees.
Certainly true. Was hoping the Yankees would fail to get him, but only to see them shut out and forced to overpay a retread, not because I'm afraid of him per se.
I think Tanaka was in their plans from the start. They never showed interest in the free agent pitchers.

Now Price probably was a different matter, but he took 14 mil and stayed in TB.

Honestly, if the Project 189 thing was bullshit from the start, Darvish would have been a much better pickup, and helped last year as well. That's kinda where those comments come from, those kinds of decisions. Or letting Russell Martin go for peanuts in favor of having essentially ME catching/hitting up there. In retrospect, if you were going to pay the tax anyway, team could have been much better right now...
Never understood letting Martin go the way they did. Maybe they were just hoping for a better bat, but I really liked him behind the plate. But I'm more than happy with McCann and we weren't going to make the play-offs last year anyways as it worked out with all the injuries.

I see this as very little risk financially. His jersey sale are going to go through the roof, here and in Japan.
Unfortunately, baseball doesn't work like that. You'll get a little money, I guess, but about 1/30th of what you're thinking of. Hats/Jerseys/etc. are all through MLB and split amongst all teams. Same (poor) logic was quoted about DiceK to start, and debunked. Only way to get money to yourselves is to sell additional ads/stadium space to Japanese companies, or figure out a way to do tours to boost ticket sales. Would think the Yankees already have that market pretty tapped out, unless it dried up after Matsui went away and you couldn't get any back with Ichiro.

Either way, that big financial boost isn't coming, you're on the hook for 22M and change for 7 years. Unless he opts out after 4 I suppose.
Wow, that "DiceK talk" was where I got my info. I was not aware that it was ever debunked.
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.

Last edited by Yanks; January 22 2014 at 08:19 PM.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 08:00 PM   #439
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yep, debunked news from 2007. Not the best source

Did a quick search, this was the first one I found that directly addresses it:

http://sabr.org/latest/cameron-big-t...ive-attendance

DiceK had at least a small impact on the Red Sox because they weren't really 'in' on the Japanese market before. So they arranged sales to tour groups (tickets, a cut of hotel and tour guide fees I'm sure), they sold advertising to Japanese companies, there was signage for Japanese teams in the ballpark, they started offering sushi, etc.

Because they weren't really exposed to that market previously, it made a (small) impact.

Yankees are already in that market, have signage and ads, etc. Matsui, Ichiro, you've already got Japanese stars that have come through your team and driven interest in Japan. May get a slight attendance bump (which was a problem last year) on days he starts, but really small enough that you can't count on the money helping the contract. Hurts a little that he's a pitcher vice a position player, as he'll only drive ticket sales, to the extent that he does at all, every 5 days.

Either way, yeah, bad info. You own the 22M a year for 6 years, and 23M the last year, unless he opts out after 4. Based on age and contracts in MLB lately, if he's any good, he'll be gone in 4. Unless you AROD yourselves again and give him crazy money to stay. If the Yankees don't start developing players, that's the spot they'll be in again, though. As a Japanese pitcher, it's more mileage on the arm than the age suggests, so could be interesting...
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 08:22 PM   #440
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Either way, yeah, bad info. You own the 22M a year for 6 years, and 23M the last year, unless he opts out after 4. Based on age and contracts in MLB lately, if he's any good, he'll be gone in 4. Unless you AROD yourselves again and give him crazy money to stay. If the Yankees don't start developing players, that's the spot they'll be in again, though. As a Japanese pitcher, it's more mileage on the arm than the age suggests, so could be interesting...
I had heard that "opt-out" thing. I wasn't sure whether the Yanks had that option or he did.
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 08:29 PM   #441
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

I think it's Tanaka's option. So basically if he opts out in four years that's probably a good thing, means he's been pitching well (and wants more money, obviously ). If he doesn't opt out then that will likely mean he didn't do so hot.

Well, I was convinced that Project 189 was still a thing, but clearly I was wrong. Good on the Yankees for getting him, but I still think they need a lot more help in their infield.
Skywalker is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 08:45 PM   #442
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

yeah, his option. 4 years/88M deal with full no-trade, and if he's doing well, he can opt out at age 29 and likely do better than 3 years/67M on the market.

Only a 155M deal if he sucks. With Kershaw getting 30M a year, unlikely he sticks around for 22M a year if he's any good at age 29.

Will have to see if he's worth ANYTHING first before we argue about his next contract, though. Could be another Darvish, or another Igawa. Personally hoping for Igawa, but I'm a dick like that. Would be entertaining to watch the spin on a 22M a year pitcher (for 7 years) who just can't hack it in the MLB. Would likely be able to see the mushroom cloud from here in RI
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 08:52 PM   #443
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Scout101 wrote: View Post
yeah, his option. 4 years/88M deal with full no-trade, and if he's doing well, he can opt out at age 29 and likely do better than 3 years/67M on the market.

Only a 155M deal if he sucks. With Kershaw getting 30M a year, unlikely he sticks around for 22M a year if he's any good at age 29.

Will have to see if he's worth ANYTHING first before we argue about his next contract, though. Could be another Darvish, or another Igawa. Personally hoping for Igawa, but I'm a dick like that. Would be entertaining to watch the spin on a 22M a year pitcher (for 7 years) who just can't hack it in the MLB. Would likely be able to see the mushroom cloud from here in RI
That would be the worst for sure. The Yankees have some serious busts on their resume...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...overpaid-busts

Hopefully we don't add to that list.
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 09:01 PM   #444
Timby
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yeah, the funniest part of this to me is that the Yankees made a ton of dumpster-diving moves over the past two years to get under 189: Trading for Vernon Wells and structuring his contract so they paid most of the money last year; Chris Stewart: Starting Catcher; trotting out the corpses of Travis Hafner and Lyle Overbay; giving Phil Hughes and Freddy Garcia about 300 innings; so on and so forth. And this was the only year they could hit the luxury tax reset button, so they will now be paying the 50 percent penalty until the end of the current CBA after the 2016 season.

I mean, it's clear that until now they were on a budget; they were clearly shooting for $189, and the 2011 - 2012 offseasons look awful if you don't believe they were aiming for a budget number. The thing is they missed the playoffs in 2013 and then, shocking no one except Hal Steinbrenner, missing the playoffs meant they lost $50 million in revenue. They also own a stake in YES, which is why their TV deals are always under market value so they can hide revenue from MLB, and the YES ratings were way down, which meant they lost out on sponsorship proceeds. It's pretty patently clear that someone eventually either ran the revenue numbers or beat it into Hal that fielding a dogshit team for the sake of saving a few million dollars per year just didn't make sense.

The Yankees needed to make this move, and good for them, because Sabathia is old, Kuroda is ancient, and the rest of the rotation is dogshit, but it's definitely risky to give $155 million to a guy whose entire career has been throwing to AAAA batters -- he could be a Darvish-level phenom, or he might flame out spectacularly. In any event, it's the fifth-largest contract ever given to a pitcher, and it's for a guy who's never thrown a major league pitch. Bananas. I'm glad the Cubs didn't sign him for that money.

This hitting line-up is as good or better than anyone in the east.

1 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2 Derek Jeter SS
3 Carlos Beltran RF
4 Mark Teixeira 1B
5 Brian McCann Catcher
6 Alfonso Soriano DH
7 Kelly Johnson/Nunez 3B
8 Brian Roberts 2B
9 Brett Gardner LF
That's a lineup that hit 117 home runs last season, which would put them 27th in the league (and that's being generous by including both Johnson and Nunez; if we're even more generous and give Jeter 11 HR by averaging 2011 and 2012 since he lost almost all of last year, they go all the way up to ... 26th). The infield defense is going to be so, so bad, and they're really going to miss Cano's bat in the lineup. Ellsbury is Carl Crawford 2.0 (no power, plays decent defense, runs really fast, doesn't give you anything else), and offense out of 2B and 3B is going to be a black hole of shit (and Jeter's old and hurt, so God only knows what they'll get out of him). There's still a logjam at DH, too. The bullpen's a mess and the 4 / 5 spots in the rotation are tremendous question marks.

All things considered, I'd probably say that's the third- or fourth-best lineup in the AL East, behind Boston and Toronto and arguably Baltimore, and somewhat better than Tampa Bay.

Last edited by Timby; January 22 2014 at 09:13 PM.
Timby is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 09:42 PM   #445
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

eh, they were only "on budget" because A-Roid got suspended.

I think you are way underestimating this batting line up just to drive home your point that Cano is irreplaceable.

I like signing Cervelli, love his energy.

I've heard, not seen numbers, that he turned down more money to play in New York. I know the battle for him was down to NY and the Cubs. Did Theo offer more and Tanaka said he didn't want to play on a team that has no competitive chance anytime soon?

I'm glad we got him. As I said, we have no other way to get a strong young arm with our farm system.
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 09:59 PM   #446
Kirby
Rear Admiral
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Location: Alt: 5280
View Kirby's Twitter Profile
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yep, it's official: Bud Selig has won the Bud Selig Leadership Award! (I had to double check that I wasn't reading The Onion). What a douchebag giving the award to himself; I can't wait for this tool to retire after this year.
__________________
Give each other $10, put it on Underhill.
Kirby is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 10:03 PM   #447
Timby
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
eh, they were only "on budget" because A-Roid got suspended.
Man, save "A-Roid" for talk radio or Rivals.com or some shit. "A-Roid," "Barroid," other cutesy-ass names like that just aren't funny. Anyway, the Yankees clearly knew as far back as December that Rodriguez was going to be getting a lengthy suspension (I said as much when they signed Ellsbury).

I think you are way underestimating this batting line up just to drive home your point that Cano is irreplaceable.
Let's go through the lineup, then:

Ellsbury -- Runs really fast, no power. Potential injury risk and really needs to learn how to draw walks.
Jeter -- Old, hurt, has exactly one season with an OPS north of .800 since 2008. Defensive liability and power is effectively gone.
Beltran -- Old, hurt, has arthritic and degenerating knees. Good hitter when he's on, but will be 37 and is reaching a point where he can't play every day.
Teixeira -- Aging, hurt (major wrist surgery for a guy who relies on power as his primary hit tool is a huge red flag). Might be decent, might be terrible.
McCann -- I have no complaints about him. Solid hitter who should be in the 3 spot.
Soriano -- Old, power is rapidly diminishing and still swings at pitches that are in New Jersey.
Johnson / Nunez -- Shitty and shitty.
Roberts -- Old, hurt, hasn't played a full season since 2009, concussion history, was objectively one of the worst hitters in all of baseball in 2012.
Gardner -- Decent but not great, very little power, is basically league-average in almost every respect.

This is not a murderer's row. There is no way anyone can say with a straight face that this lineup is better without Cano than with him.

I like signing Cervelli, love his energy.
Cervelli is a .271 / .343 / .710 hitter. He's below league-average. He's a guy who occasionally comes off the bench, nothing more.

I've heard, not seen numbers, that he turned down more money to play in New York. I know the battle for him was down to NY and the Cubs. Did Theo offer more and Tanaka said he didn't want to play on a team that has no competitive chance anytime soon?
The Cubs' offer went to $150 million, but it's not known if they included the opt-out. The Dodgers' offer was north of $160, possibly as high as $170 million, but they refused to include an opt-out clause.

I'm glad we got him. As I said, we have no other way to get a strong young arm with our farm system.
As I said, it's a good move for the Yankees. But if they were going to blow past $189 anyway, they shouldn't have spent the last two years putting together a dumpster fire of an infield and outfield.
Timby is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 11:01 PM   #448
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

We'll see Timby. Health is paramount for all teams, really important for the Yankees.

I know Cervelli's #'s. They aren't what he brings to a team. He's a good clubhouse energy guy.

Break...

So what's Theo's plan with the Cubs?
__________________
“Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
Yanks is offline  
Old January 22 2014, 11:07 PM   #449
Timby
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
So what's Theo's plan with the Cubs?
Same as it's been since 2012: Keep developing young talent, which takes time. They pretty clearly were betting the farm on getting Tanaka, so I'm sure they need to do a little re-evaluation at this point, but next year's free agent class is pretty deep for pitching, so I don't think it's a huge concern -- and on the off chance Tanaka shits the bed, having him signed to a mammoth deal would seriously set the Cubs back. Baez, Soler and Bryant should be coming up to the majors either this September or in spring 2015, Rizzo should rebound, and they're in wait-and-see mode on Mike Olt and his seeing-eye dog. Organizational turnaround takes time, particularly when you're cleaning up after Jim Hendry, and anyone who expected the Cubs to be contending for the NL Central before 2015 was either high as a kite or functionally stupid.
Timby is offline  
Old January 23 2014, 03:51 AM   #450
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Speaking of retreads, Grady Sizemore to the Red Sox.

Interesting as a flier, I guess. Only $750k deal, and competing for a 4th/5th outfielder spot, so not like they need it to work out. Was a stud back before the injury bug bit the shit out of him. Doubt he's got the same upside anymore, but at least interesting as a cheap look and see. If not, can release him with no harm done. Not a starter, most likely, but may still offer something off the bench.

(See, that's how you evaluate retread injured veteran signings. Not just penciling him in for .300/ 30SB / 30HRs )
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.