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Old December 8 2013, 05:31 AM   #211
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

With the winter meetings starting tomorrow the Yanks have a chance of leaving the bad taste of losing Cano behind them and putting together the final touches of what could be a great offseason. Here are my recommendations:

1. Trade Gardner for Chase Headley. Both player are approaching their final year before free agency. Both players are perfect fits for their proposed new teams.

2. Trade Ichiro, Romine and Warren to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp. With Arod likely out for most if not all season, the Yankees need another right handed bat to balance their lineup. Considering the significant financial relief, the Dodgers will likely eat a good portion of Kemp's contract, they also could use Ichiro as a fourth OF, Romine is better than any catcher in their system and Warren could be a solid back end of the rotation starter for them. Kemp is still young and could be a phenomenal force for the Yanks for years to come.

3. Sign Johan Santana or Roy Halladay to incentive laden contracts. Either could be a low cost, low risk, high reward option and may serve as inexpensive insurance in case Tanaka is not posted or as quality 4th/5th starters if healthy. Santana specially could be a good fit in Yankee stadium.

4. Go after Tanaka if posted. It is going to cost a lot more money with the new posting system, but at 25 with his track record, he is the best SP available. If not posted, give Pineda, Nuno or Banuelos a chance to win the 5th spot.

5. Sign Erisbel Arruebarruena and let him win the 2B job. The 23 yr. old Cuban defector is supposed to be a defensive wiz at SS. At his age a transition to 2B shouldn't be difficult. His range could more than make up for Jeter's lack of range and give the Yanks a chance at a solid defense down the middle.

6. Sign Seung-Hwan Oh when posted. He has nasty stuff and could be the next Uejara

This could be the new lineup:

CF Ellsbury

SS Jeter

RF Beltran

LF Kemp

C McCann

1B Teixeira

DH Soriano

3B Headley

2B Arruebarruena

Bench

C Cervelli

IF Ryan, Johnson

OF Almonte

SP

Sabathia

Tanaka

Nova

Kuroda

Santana/Nuno/Banuelos

RP

Robertson

Oh

Kelley

Cabral

Betances

Huff

Phelps

This team can win it all. Cashman, let's get it done...
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Old December 8 2013, 05:45 AM   #212
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

I still like my idea better of moving Jeter to 2nd Base and getting a short stop.
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Old December 8 2013, 06:02 AM   #213
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

@Yanks: I like Santana, but no way should the Yankees sign him. Way too injury-prone. Hell, did he even pitch at all after his no-no?
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Old December 8 2013, 06:16 AM   #214
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

@Yanks, that team is not good enough to beat the Red Sox, or the Rays. What was learned last year was that it's the team with the most depth that usually wins, and that team has none, especially in the starting rotation.

And why would the Dodgers ever do that deal for Kemp. You keep acting like the Yankees have talent to trade away. They don't, especially the kind that other teams want. They won't just want spare parts, especially if they're willing to eat much of the salary for Kemp, which is what has been indicated. Why would they do that trade for some middling talent from the Yankees, when they could get a lot more from other teams?
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Old December 8 2013, 04:53 PM   #215
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Have a Horrible Christmas wrote: View Post
I still like my idea better of moving Jeter to 2nd Base and getting a short stop.
Well, I see Derek moving to 3rd a more likely senario if he'd ever go for it. 2nd takes as much mobility as SS.

Ru ru, chu wrote: View Post
@Yanks: I like Santana, but no way should the Yankees sign him. Way too injury-prone. Hell, did he even pitch at all after his no-no?
Agree, but I'm thinking he'd be cheap with big upside.

Tom Servo wrote: View Post
@Yanks, that team is not good enough to beat the Red Sox, or the Rays. What was learned last year was that it's the team with the most depth that usually wins, and that team has none, especially in the starting rotation.

And why would the Dodgers ever do that deal for Kemp. You keep acting like the Yankees have talent to trade away. They don't, especially the kind that other teams want. They won't just want spare parts, especially if they're willing to eat much of the salary for Kemp, which is what has been indicated. Why would they do that trade for some middling talent from the Yankees, when they could get a lot more from other teams?
You're starting to be laughable. So it's great when the Dodgers take your overpaid trash, that's frekkin brilliant baseball management, but when someone else proposes a deal it's bull?

The Sox can't talk about big "dumb" contracts, had it not been for the Dodgers, you'd be stuck with Becket, Crawford and Gonzales.

As I wrote above, we do have something they may want.

So what is it, you bitch when we "buy" players and bitch when we want to deal?

Seems like some pretty one-sided bitching to me.
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Old December 8 2013, 05:51 PM   #216
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
Tom Servo wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

Yes, 10 is stupid. It wasn't a money issue.

Get over it. We didn't want him.
Still doesn't mean that it wasn't a stupid decision. Actually it was two stupid decisions...the first to sign Ellsbury, and then to not sign Cano.
That's your opinion.
Your Yankees Stockholm Syndrome is getting kind of hilarious, particularly your stubborn refusal to understand that it's Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner, the architects of Project 189, who are calling these shots, not Brian Cashman.

Anytime you commit $198 million to an age 37 player with arthritic knees and an all-speed, no-power, noodle-armed outfielder who has missed over 250 games in the last four years, you aren't making moves for baseball reasons.

On top of that, the Yankees now have significant holes from the losses of Cano, Pettite and Rivera, and assuming significant contributions from Jeter, Teixeira, Pineda, etc., given the nature of their injuries (and they're clearly proceeding as if A-Rod will not be back) is moronic (almost as moronic as calling Johan Santana a "high-upside" player; he's 34, his shoulder has exploded twice and he has a history of elbow issues). I mean, what's the over / under on the number of Yankees games where all of Ellsbury, Beltran, McCann, Teixeira and Jeter are healthy enough to play? 10? 25?

The Yankees are at the point in their contention curve where they just absolutely have to keep guys like Cano, because there is no replacement available, and my general opinion is that if you're going to overpay, it has to be for the elite talent -- which, in this offseason, is Cano and Cano alone. Let's also not pretend that the Yankees are ever going to be crippled by having to eat the back end of a long deal, or that Cano's deal has a bigger chance of going south than Ellsbury's, despite the length difference.

Now, I don't think the Yankees are done (they're insane if they are), but the plan for Ichiro and Wells is pretty clearly to put "free ballplayer OBO" ads up on Craigslist. Both men are ancient and coming off the absolute worst seasons of their careers; no one, not even Ruben Amaro, would trade anything of value for either of them. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking the Yankees have the chips to land Kemp, because they really don't, and the farm is at least two years away from producing anything that isn't shit, particularly now that the Yankees have already forfeited their first two draft picks next year. Kemp will likely land in Boston. (And the Dodgers have all the money in the world; they certainly don't need financial relief. This is not the era of Frank McCourt being corrupt and bankrupt.)

The long and the short of it is that the Yankees were a 79-win team on paper last year, and they've lost several huge pieces from that team including one of the best hitters in baseball (and are acting as though another one won't be around, either; call him A-Roid or whatever you want but the Yankees' lineup is better with him in it) without plugging in replacements of anything resembling equivalent value. These are not the strategic moves of a team trying to win championships; these are the accounting moves being made because Hal Steinbrenner is tired of paying the luxury tax.
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Old December 8 2013, 06:19 PM   #217
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Timby wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Tom Servo wrote: View Post

Still doesn't mean that it wasn't a stupid decision. Actually it was two stupid decisions...the first to sign Ellsbury, and then to not sign Cano.
That's your opinion.
Your Yankees Stockholm Syndrome is getting kind of hilarious, particularly your stubborn refusal to understand that it's Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner, the architects of Project 189, who are calling these shots, not Brian Cashman.

The long and the short of it is that the Yankees were a 79-win team on paper last year, and they've lost several huge pieces from that team including one of the best hitters in baseball (and are acting as though another one won't be around, either; call him A-Roid or whatever you want but the Yankees' lineup is better with him in it) without plugging in replacements of anything resembling equivalent value. These are not the strategic moves of a team trying to win championships; these are the accounting moves being made because Hal Steinbrenner is tired of paying the luxury tax.
Of course the owners call the money shots.... where is that different?

Accounting moves? 15 for Beltran, 21 for Ellsbury, 17 for McCann, 16 for Jeter and 16 for Kuroda are indications that Hal is tired of paying the luxury tax?

Our farm system is thin, so this is the only way to compete. Not that that's any different that what... EVER.

The Yankees smartly decided that Cano wasn't worth it. To spend that long a deal on a second baseman, one that is lazy and has a history of choking when the team needs him would have been stupid.

The way Choke Rod has played (when he's played) the last few years is contrary to your statement. His hips are gone. He can't last. He looks for one pitch to hit. I've always hated him, but now I hate him and he sucks.

Face it, the Dodgers bailed you guys out or you'd be in the same situation we are in.
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Old December 8 2013, 06:38 PM   #218
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
Timby wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

That's your opinion.
Your Yankees Stockholm Syndrome is getting kind of hilarious, particularly your stubborn refusal to understand that it's Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner, the architects of Project 189, who are calling these shots, not Brian Cashman.

The long and the short of it is that the Yankees were a 79-win team on paper last year, and they've lost several huge pieces from that team including one of the best hitters in baseball (and are acting as though another one won't be around, either; call him A-Roid or whatever you want but the Yankees' lineup is better with him in it) without plugging in replacements of anything resembling equivalent value. These are not the strategic moves of a team trying to win championships; these are the accounting moves being made because Hal Steinbrenner is tired of paying the luxury tax.
Of course the owners call the money shots.... where is that different?

Accounting moves? 15 for Beltran, 21 for Ellsbury, 17 for McCann, 16 for Jeter and 16 for Kuroda are indications that Hal is tired of paying the luxury tax?
Yes, it is, in case you've missed the Yankees shedding payroll like madmen for the past two offseasons. By getting under $189 this offseason, their luxury tax payment resets to only 17.5% of the difference between the threshold and their payroll (currently they pay 50% of the difference in luxury taxes, a situation which Hal Steinbrenner has been saying is unacceptable since early 2012).

The Yankees smartly decided that Cano wasn't worth it. To spend that long a deal on a second baseman, one that is lazy and has a history of choking when the team needs him would have been stupid.
"History of choking?" The hell? Cano has played in at least 159 games every year since 2007 and has Xeroxed his performance every year since 2009. He had a rough postseason in 2012, but he was a fucking moon monster in 2010-'11.

Again, the postseason is a small sample size. There's no such thing as a "clutch" player -- it's all luck. This is an even more ridiculous argument than when you were cheering the Tigers for trading Prince Fielder for a box of baseballs.

The way Choke Rod has played (when he's played) the last few years is contrary to your statement. His hips are gone. He can't last. He looks for one pitch to hit. I've always hated him, but now I hate him and he sucks.
In limited duty last season, Rodriguez put up numbers that would have him on pace for about a 25 HR season with 240-some total bases. Not world-class production, but certainly something you'd like to have in your lineup as opposed to Vernon fuckin' Wells.

Face it, the Dodgers bailed you guys out or you'd be in the same situation we are in.
Pardon me? I'm not a Boston fan. In any event, on no planet can you make a rational argument that losing a reliably healthy, all-star hitter (the best free agent available this offseason) because he wanted 10 years, but going seven years on a slap-hitting, injury-prone outfielder is a net positive. Addition by subtraction is not a thing. And your whole "we didn't want him anyway, he wasn't a true Yankee" is more hilarious than all the hit jobs that the Boston front office puts out on anyone high-profile who leaves town.

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Old December 8 2013, 11:03 PM   #219
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Plus, even with the 'bailout', they had to give up Gonzalez to get rid of Beckett and Crawford. He wasn't part of the problem, he was a masher with a non-terrible contract, and signed for like 6 more years at that point. We'd have just as soon kept him, but that was the price of hitting the reset button on Crawford and Beckett.
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Old December 8 2013, 11:58 PM   #220
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Plus, even with the 'bailout', they had to give up Gonzalez to get rid of Beckett and Crawford. He wasn't part of the problem, he was a masher with a non-terrible contract, and signed for like 6 more years at that point. We'd have just as soon kept him, but that was the price of hitting the reset button on Crawford and Beckett.
Correct. Two horrible contracts signed by the Red Sox.

Again, you were bailed out by the spend happy Dodgers.
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Old December 9 2013, 12:13 AM   #221
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Yanks wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
Plus, even with the 'bailout', they had to give up Gonzalez to get rid of Beckett and Crawford. He wasn't part of the problem, he was a masher with a non-terrible contract, and signed for like 6 more years at that point. We'd have just as soon kept him, but that was the price of hitting the reset button on Crawford and Beckett.
Correct. Two horrible contracts signed by the Red Sox.

Again, you were bailed out by the spend happy Dodgers.
So ... your defense for the Yankees being idiots boils down to "no u?"
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Old December 9 2013, 12:26 AM   #222
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Timby wrote: View Post
Yes, it is, in case you've missed the Yankees shedding payroll like madmen for the past two offseasons. By getting under $189 this offseason, their luxury tax payment resets to only 17.5% of the difference between the threshold and their payroll (currently they pay 50% of the difference in luxury taxes, a situation which Hal Steinbrenner has been saying is unacceptable since early 2012).
So, what the hell is wrong with that?

"History of choking?" The hell? Cano has played in at least 159 games every year since 2007 and has Xeroxed his performance every year since 2009. He had a rough postseason in 2012, but he was a fucking moon monster in 2010-'11.
I've watched him more than you I'm sure. They can have him. The only post season he was worth his salt was in 09 when A=Rod went ape shit. He just tagged along.

He is not money.

Again, the postseason is a small sample size. There's no such thing as a "clutch" player -- it's all luck. This is an even more ridiculous argument than when you were cheering the Tigers for trading Prince Fielder for a box of baseballs.
Post season isn't a "small sample size for Cano. WTF are you talking about? I never was "rooting for " Fielder.

The way Choke Rod has played (when he's played) the last few years is contrary to your statement. His hips are gone. He can't last. He looks for one pitch to hit. I've always hated him, but now I hate him and he sucks.
In limited duty last season, Rodriguez put up numbers that would have him on pace for about a 25 HR season with 240-some total bases. Not world-class production, but certainly something you'd like to have in your lineup as opposed to Vernon fuckin' Wells.
Bull, he will never hit that again unless he does roids. His last time in the play-offs he was relegated to 7th in the line-up and eventually benched. He is a has been, and a self centered one at that. I've never liked him and never will. I was praying the Red Sox signed him in 2003.

Oh, and Vernon is just about playing for nothing. Only a Yankee because of the massive injuries last year. So why bring him up?

Face it, the Dodgers bailed you guys out or you'd be in the same situation we are in.
Pardon me? I'm not a Boston fan. In any event, on no planet can you make a rational argument that losing a reliably healthy, all-star hitter (the best free agent available this offseason) because he wanted 10 years, but going seven years on a slap-hitting, injury-prone outfielder is a net positive. Addition by subtraction is not a thing. And your whole "we didn't want him anyway, he wasn't a true Yankee" is more hilarious than all the hit jobs that the Boston front office puts out on anyone high-profile who leaves town.
What is your team?

You don't know Cano, as apparent by your mind midget posts with regard to his play. I've watched damn near every game for 9 years and he was not close to worth what Seattle payed for him. Neither was Albert or Hamilton. Stupid contracts.

With his talent he should have hit 400 by now. With that swing he should be hitting 380 in the post season.

He's undisciplined and will never change.

He's lazy, doesn't run out balls to first.

His numbers will only decline.

Baseball isn't all about numbers, as demonstrated by the Red Sox this year. They had a good manager and a good clubhouse after the Dodgers bailed them out.
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Old December 9 2013, 12:26 AM   #223
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

seems that way. And the Beckett deal wasn't terrible in itself, he was just being a shithead in the clubhouse. Turned out to be more terrible when he got hurt with the Dodgers.

Crawford - well, terrible in boston, at least. He turtled under pressure. Of course, had a better health history and production than the guy the Yankees just signed to a contract that was 10M MORE than the Crawford deal, and you love that one, so not sure how to argue that one with you.

How's Cano suddenly not worth the money? Yankees offered him the EXACT SAME money, just a couple less years. Presumably Cashman has seen at least as many games as you have, plus has access to his medical records and workouts. A week ago, you'd have gone on a rant about how much better than Pedroia he is, now he sucks, chokes, and was never a 'real' Yankee, despite having 9 years in pinstripes.

Either way, you had it right before. You're arguing from an extreme Yankee Fanboy perspective, so tough to find middle ground to have actual discussions. Everyone else sucks, Yankees are definitely going to win it all next year. Because of the pinstripes, not because of talent, or payroll, or the lack of rotation, bullpen, or 2B/3B players, or anyone actually alive and not geriatric at 1B or SS.

Honestly, the way you're acting here is a big part of why everyone hates the Yankees. Entitlement, you're the best no matter what, everyone will give you their star players for a bag of used balls. Yankees are hurting at the moment, and need time to rebuild. It's ok to say it.
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Old December 9 2013, 12:26 AM   #224
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Timby wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
Plus, even with the 'bailout', they had to give up Gonzalez to get rid of Beckett and Crawford. He wasn't part of the problem, he was a masher with a non-terrible contract, and signed for like 6 more years at that point. We'd have just as soon kept him, but that was the price of hitting the reset button on Crawford and Beckett.
Correct. Two horrible contracts signed by the Red Sox.

Again, you were bailed out by the spend happy Dodgers.
So ... your defense for the Yankees being idiots boils down to "no u?"
"no u"???
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Old December 9 2013, 12:37 AM   #225
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Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Scout101 wrote: View Post
seems that way. And the Beckett deal wasn't terrible in itself, he was just being a shithead in the clubhouse. Turned out to be more terrible when he got hurt with the Dodgers.
I called the Beckett deal as horrible the day he signed it. Why? Because he IS a shit head and I knew he wasn't going to be squat after he got that fat contract.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Crawford - well, terrible in boston, at least. He turtled under pressure. Of course, had a better health history and production than the guy the Yankees just signed to a contract that was 10M MORE than the Crawford deal, and you love that one, so not sure how to argue that one with you.
I never understood the Crawford deal at all. Never saw what "Everyone else" saw in him.

Only fast, not good.

If you think Ells is not better thab Crawford, you know nothing about baseball.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Either way, you had it right before. You're arguing from an extreme Yankee Fanboy perspective, so tough to find middle ground to have actual discussions. Everyone else sucks, Yankees are definitely going to win it all next year. Because of the pinstripes, not because of talent, or payroll, or the lack of rotation, bullpen, or 2B/3B players, or anyone actually alive and not geriatric at 1B or SS.
I can have actual discussions and as I've said, I am a Yankees homer.

But when one does not see what I know to be true, and only goes by the numbers and Yankee hatered, we've got a problem.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Honestly, the way you're acting here is a big part of why everyone hates the Yankees. Entitlement, you're the best no matter what, everyone will give you their star players for a bag of used balls. Yankees are hurting at the moment, and need time to rebuild. It's ok to say it.
But they won't accept that. It's not me, it's them.

I'd take a few "bad" years to build the farm system, but they wont.

Knowing that, they are doing what they can to build a contending team. I can't hate them for that like everyone else.

I think you ALL are underestimating the importance of Ells in that Boston line-up.

He stays healthy his the biggest grab in a decade.

We'll see what happens in the spring.
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