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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 28 2013, 10:14 PM   #31
R. Star
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Harbinger wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Harbinger wrote: View Post
I understand that but I'm looking for a way to explain the many apparent inconsistencies throughout. Even before the Narada's arrvial, people and things looked different than they did from their Prime counterparts. As just one example, the ships looked way more sleek and advanced then even anything in the original TOS movies and this is prior to the Narada's arrival. I understand some have argued that the Narada allowed the Federation to bump up their technology in comparison to Prime, but again things were obviously different before that occurred.

I'm not saying you're wrong and in fact, what you mentioned is what they said in the movie but none of these explain the inconsistencies found throughout the Alternate Universe.
Take a look at the videos in my signature - pre-Abrams Trek is riddled with HUGE game-breaking continuity errors. Voyager and TOS can't possibly co-exist in the same universe going by their treatment of warp speed, for example. The new movies fit in just fine as the writers intended (a branching continuity from 2233), IMO.

If Saavik and Zefram Cochrane can look completely different with nobody noticing, than the Enterprise can look sleeker too. It's all the same thing.
Yeah, I understand. In the end it's what you and Chowda are saying is correct. I'm just kind of nitpicking and trying to explain away inconsistencies but it's like you said - when the Narada arrived, it created the Alternate Universe. Trying to explain differences in looks, extra-galactic aliens and other things really isn't worth thinking too much about when in the end Abrams and company are just trying to make Star Trek appealing again (or to the masses or whatever).
I dunno, I'd have to say the JJverse was already an alternate reality before Nero flew into it. The Kelvin was super scaled, Chekov's age changed, the San Fransisco Shipyard moved to Iowa and well... whole threads dedicated to all this.

But TNG handwaved all the alternate universes with the whole "every choice possible is made in an alternate reality." Not sure I buy into that, but time travel and alternate universes are Trek cliches.

Still wanna know why those black holes are selective when they do and don't have ship crushing gravity.
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Old October 28 2013, 10:18 PM   #32
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Khan isn't wearing a turban when on Ceti Alpha V. Whatever that thing is, it's not a turban - just part of the protective gear that all of his people wore. Didn't look at all like Sikh religious garb.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
But TNG handwaved all the alternate universes with the whole "every choice possible is made in an alternate reality." Not sure I buy into that, but time travel and alternate universes are Trek cliches.
The concept of alternate universes existed LONG before Trek did. I don't know if all of the theories propounded regarding them assumed that there were an infinite number of such universes (or a fixed number of them) but I suppose most were. In which case, TNG did not handwave anything. Assuming an infinite number of universes, the likelihood that these will comprise every outcome of every decision ever made is, by definition, infinitely good.
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Old October 29 2013, 12:07 AM   #33
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
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Old October 29 2013, 12:32 AM   #34
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?
Well, to be fair, James Cromwell wasn't their first choice (excellent though he was). They wanted Tom Hanks. And even though Hanks is a HUGE Trekkie and wanted to play Cochrane, he couldn't, because he was already working on That Thing You Do! when offered the role.
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Old October 29 2013, 12:58 AM   #35
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
From Juan Panblanco?
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Old October 29 2013, 01:13 AM   #36
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
Cochrane in TOS was a younger version, wasn't it? Did his age get reversed and he made it through all his AA meetings? So it would make some sense I suppose.

I prefer TNG Cochrane anyhow. He was a fun character.
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Old October 29 2013, 01:18 AM   #37
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?
Well, to be fair, James Cromwell wasn't their first choice (excellent though he was). They wanted Tom Hanks. And even though Hanks is a HUGE Trekkie and wanted to play Cochrane, he couldn't, because he was already working on That Thing You Do! when offered the role.
I didn't know that about Hanks, I think would have done a great job.
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Old October 29 2013, 02:24 AM   #38
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Harbinger wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
Cochrane in TOS was a younger version, wasn't it? Did his age get reversed and he made it through all his AA meetings? So it would make some sense I suppose.

I prefer TNG Cochrane anyhow. He was a fun character.
He also wasn't from Earth.
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Old October 29 2013, 02:28 AM   #39
Nerys Myk
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Harbinger wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post

Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
Cochrane in TOS was a younger version, wasn't it? Did his age get reversed and he made it through all his AA meetings? So it would make some sense I suppose.

I prefer TNG Cochrane anyhow. He was a fun character.
He also wasn't from Earth.
Yet he was human.
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Old October 29 2013, 02:37 AM   #40
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
Probably not, but I'd be amused.
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Old October 29 2013, 03:42 AM   #41
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
The Kelvin was super scaled
And this somehow conflicts with a Prime continuity that never said anything about whether or not any ships were "super scaled" in 2233?

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Chekov's age changed
How is a change happening after 2233 supposed to be evidence of a preexisting alternate timeline?
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Old October 29 2013, 04:34 AM   #42
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Harbinger wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Take a look at the videos in my signature - pre-Abrams Trek is riddled with HUGE game-breaking continuity errors. Voyager and TOS can't possibly co-exist in the same universe going by their treatment of warp speed, for example. The new movies fit in just fine as the writers intended (a branching continuity from 2233), IMO.

If Saavik and Zefram Cochrane can look completely different with nobody noticing, than the Enterprise can look sleeker too. It's all the same thing.
Yeah, I understand. In the end it's what you and Chowda are saying is correct. I'm just kind of nitpicking and trying to explain away inconsistencies but it's like you said - when the Narada arrived, it created the Alternate Universe. Trying to explain differences in looks, extra-galactic aliens and other things really isn't worth thinking too much about when in the end Abrams and company are just trying to make Star Trek appealing again (or to the masses or whatever).
I dunno, I'd have to say the JJverse was already an alternate reality before Nero flew into it. The Kelvin was super scaled, Chekov's age changed, the San Fransisco Shipyard moved to Iowa and well... whole threads dedicated to all this.

But TNG handwaved all the alternate universes with the whole "every choice possible is made in an alternate reality." Not sure I buy into that, but time travel and alternate universes are Trek cliches.

Still wanna know why those black holes are selective when they do and don't have ship crushing gravity.
you've stated events that happen after kelvin incident. chekovs age, being born after kelvin incident, and where the enterprise was built a couple decades and some years later are both post kelvin alterations.
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Old October 29 2013, 04:51 AM   #43
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
He also wasn't from Earth.
Cochrane was from Earth, but moved to Alpha Centauri. Seems simple enough. Fits nicely with his abrupt disappearance.
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Old October 29 2013, 05:16 AM   #44
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Harbinger wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
Zefram Cochrane had a totally different personality as well as appearance. That still annoys me - like Berman and Braga had said "stuff you" to TOS. Still what can you do?

In the next movie they should introduce Kyle on transporter as a proper Sikh with turban and beard. He can turn from a whitebread Englishman to an ethnic Sikh. Would that make everyone happy?
Cochrane in TOS was a younger version, wasn't it? Did his age get reversed and he made it through all his AA meetings? So it would make some sense I suppose.

I prefer TNG Cochrane anyhow. He was a fun character.
The cynicism of FC Cochrane was explained pretty well in the novelization. He had a severe case of bipolar disorder, and with WWIII was off his meds, so was self-medicating with alcohol. Watching everything he cared about go up in nuclear smoke made him couch everything in cynical terms, but that a lot of it was an act to help him cope.
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Old October 29 2013, 03:00 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Khan isn't wearing a turban when on Ceti Alpha V. Whatever that thing is, it's not a turban - just part of the protective gear that all of his people wore. Didn't look at all like Sikh religious garb.
FreeDictionary definition of "turban": 1. A traditionally Muslim headdress consisting of a long scarf of linen, cotton, or silk that is wound around a small cap or directly around the head.

Certainly looked like a generic "headdress consisting of a long scarf of linen, cotton, or silk that is wound around a small cap or directly around the head" to me. I never said it was a Sikh turban.
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