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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 28 2013, 03:24 AM   #16
Set Harth
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Harbinger wrote:
I remember as a little kid when I saw WoK how I thought Khan looked so much like a singer for a heavy metal band.
Needs more spandex.
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Last edited by Set Harth; October 28 2013 at 09:38 PM.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:46 AM   #17
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Set Harth wrote: View Post

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
Plus, Marla's initial assessment of Khan was "probably a Sikh" is obviously completely wrong.
How is that obvious? Every time I read a story about a Sikh in the local paper, the guy's last name turns out to be... well, you know.
Sikhs are forbidden from removing or trimming hair from any part of the body. Khan was clean shaven and had a waxed chest. Also, no turban. That he didn't immediately apply a turban upon his revival says it all.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:53 AM   #18
Captain Jed R.
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Or he could just be really bad at it: sort of like saying he's descended from Sikhs but he himself ignores the requirements of the religion because "fuck you I'm Khan Noonien Singh bitches". I don't really see someone with a God complex subscribing to religion anyway.
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Old October 28 2013, 10:29 AM   #19
Therin of Andor
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Sikhs are forbidden from removing or trimming hair from any part of the body. Khan was clean shaven and had a waxed chest.
The hairlessness may have been caused by his genetic engineering. (What do Sikhs do when they are ill and need an operation on a hairy section of their body?) Perhaps Khan was no longer a practising Sikh?

Also, no turban. That he didn't immediately apply a turban upon his revival says it all.
Marla paints him wearing one (TOS), and we do see Khan wearing a turban when he is outdoors on Ceti Alpha V. (I saw the film again on the big screen last week, and noticed the turban shape of his headgear for the first time.)
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Old October 28 2013, 10:56 AM   #20
Nob Akimoto
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Sikhism nowadays is as much an ethnic identity as it is a religious one. Just as one can be a "secular Jew", there's a fair number of sikhs outside of Punjab that either shave or go without turbans.

Heck, maybe Khan was their version of a secular sikh nationalist or something carving out the equivalent of Khalistan out of South Asia and ruling it as some sort of twisted eugenics crossed movement. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Old October 28 2013, 11:00 AM   #21
Mario de Monti
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Take a look at the videos in my signature - pre-Abrams Trek is riddled with HUGE game-breaking continuity errors. Voyager and TOS can't possibly co-exist in the same universe going by their treatment of warp speed, for example. The new movies fit in just fine as the writers intended (a branching continuity from 2233), IMO.

If Saavik and Zefram Cochrane can look completely different with nobody noticing, than the Enterprise can look sleeker too. It's all the same thing.
THIS !!!!

If you try to explain all the continuity problems and try to fit 700+ episodes and movies from five decades under one roof (sort of like Trek´s "Grand Unified Theory") you´ll probably end up not enjoying much of Trek anymore and start ranting at anything new that doesn´t "fit". My enjoyment of any series or movie is at its peak when I ignore these little bits and pieces of artistic license (and sometimes negligence) and take each as a separate entity - still as Star Trek, but more as a variation on the theme rather than a strict and accurate expansion of the Trek universe. To me this works with ENT, works with nuTrek ... but YMMV, of course


@King Daniel Into Darkness

I really enjoyed your videos, BTW
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Old October 28 2013, 02:37 PM   #22
Nerys Myk
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Or he could just be really bad at it: sort of like saying he's descended from Sikhs but he himself ignores the requirements of the religion because "fuck you I'm Khan Noonien Singh bitches". I don't really see someone with a God complex subscribing to religion anyway.
It's Marla who calls him a Sikh, with out knowing his name and in spite of him not exhibiting any outward signs of Sikhism. Khan never claims to be one.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:06 PM   #23
BillJ
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Or he could just be really bad at it: sort of like saying he's descended from Sikhs but he himself ignores the requirements of the religion because "fuck you I'm Khan Noonien Singh bitches". I don't really see someone with a God complex subscribing to religion anyway.
It's Marla who calls him a Sikh, with out knowing his name and in spite of him not exhibiting any outward signs of Sikhism. Khan never claims to be one.
It's obvious McGivers gets quite a bit wrong about Khan.
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Old October 28 2013, 03:57 PM   #24
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Or he could just be really bad at it: sort of like saying he's descended from Sikhs but he himself ignores the requirements of the religion because "fuck you I'm Khan Noonien Singh bitches". I don't really see someone with a God complex subscribing to religion anyway.
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Sikhs are forbidden from removing or trimming hair from any part of the body. Khan was clean shaven and had a waxed chest.
The hairlessness may have been caused by his genetic engineering. (What do Sikhs do when they are ill and need an operation on a hairy section of their body?) Perhaps Khan was no longer a practising Sikh?
The problem is that Marla ID's him as a Sikh without knowing who or what he is. You don't look at a clean-shaven guy with no turban and say, "probably a Sikh." Nu-uh.
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Also, no turban. That he didn't immediately apply a turban upon his revival says it all.
Marla paints him wearing one (TOS), and we do see Khan wearing a turban when he is outdoors on Ceti Alpha V. (I saw the film again on the big screen last week, and noticed the turban shape of his headgear for the first time.)
I'd forgotten about the turban-ish headgear in WoK - but that he took it off speaks volumes. As for Marla's painting, it's just her fantasy impression of him.
The importance of the turban to Sikhism
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post

@King Daniel Into Darkness

I really enjoyed your videos, BTW
You're welcome!
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Old October 28 2013, 04:02 PM   #25
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

I'm convinced he's either a deliberate or sloppy amalgamation of eastern sounding ethnic names created by the writers. For that reason, I'm with BillJ, in universe McGivers got it wrong, probably because out of universe, the writers just didn't care to be too ethnically precise (who's going to know?) or were deliberately imprecise (so as not to be offensive to one group). In universe, he could've known she was wrong, but Khan didn't disabuse her because her infatuation with him was useful and it didn't really matter.

"Khan" is either an Indian or Persian title or a surname for an ethnic group in India other than the Sikhs. As has been said on these boards before, "Singh" is indeed a common Sikh name. But as others have also pointed out, unless Khan is totally secular, he exhibits none of the visible Sikh traditions (including not carrying a Kirpan). "Noonien" must be a totally made up name, because I can't find any ethnic origin (or etymology) for that name at all.

I must say I'm amused to find out that a story in a Trek comic will apparently spend time trying to explain why Khan looks like Benedict Cumberbatch in the new universe. That ranks right up there with feeling the need to create a story to explain how the Klingons got their ridges.
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Old October 28 2013, 07:31 PM   #26
M'Sharak
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post


Marla paints him wearing one (TOS), and we do see Khan wearing a turban when he is outdoors on Ceti Alpha V. (I saw the film again on the big screen last week, and noticed the turban shape of his headgear for the first time.)
I'd forgotten about the turban-ish headgear in WoK - but that he took it off speaks volumes. As for Marla's painting, it's just her fantasy impression of him.
The importance of the turban to Sikhism
The headgear worn (and promptly doffed, never to be seen again) by Khan in WoK much more closely resembles the tagelmust worn by the Tuaregs than it does the Sikh dastar.

Franklin wrote: View Post
I'm convinced he's either a deliberate or sloppy amalgamation of eastern sounding ethnic names created by the writers.
Yup.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:53 PM   #27
Therin of Andor
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Franklin wrote: View Post
I must say I'm amused to find out that a story in a Trek comic will apparently spend time trying to explain why Khan looks like Benedict Cumberbatch in the new universe.
And yet, if they don't address it, there would be comments that IDW's writers were lazy or cowardly or similar for not explaining.

Kobayashi Maru.
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Old October 28 2013, 09:57 PM   #28
BillJ
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
I must say I'm amused to find out that a story in a Trek comic will apparently spend time trying to explain why Khan looks like Benedict Cumberbatch in the new universe.
And yet, if they don't address it, there would be comments that IDW's writers were lazy or cowardly or similar for not explaining.

Kobayashi Maru.
It's one thing if they have an actual interesting story to tell, quite another if they're just pandering to the fanbase.
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Old October 28 2013, 10:00 PM   #29
Franklin
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
I must say I'm amused to find out that a story in a Trek comic will apparently spend time trying to explain why Khan looks like Benedict Cumberbatch in the new universe.
And yet, if they don't address it, there would be comments that IDW's writers were lazy or cowardly or similar for not explaining.

Kobayashi Maru.
Probably. More's to pity.

Still, it would be more courageous not to do it. After all, Pine doesn't look like Shatner, Quinto doesn't look like Nimoy, Pegg doesn't look like Doohan, and so on. Do these differences need explaining, too? Where does it stop? Oh, dear Lord, where does it stop? [Starts sobbing uncontrollably.]
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Old October 28 2013, 10:10 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek 2009 discontinuity from canon.

There's a substantial difference between recasting a character in a similar appearance and changing them to be John Whitebread.
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