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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old November 27 2013, 06:37 PM   #256
Lynx
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Not to mention that I still don't understand why they had to bring back the character for one lousy episode, only to ruin the character in the worst possible way and then kill her off, as they actually planned to do.

The episode had no impact at all on the ongoing Voyager saga. There is nothing in it which is similar to Seska's treason in "State Of Flux" which affected the ongoing story for two seasons or Suder's murder case which also had some impact on the events in "Basics" later on. So why bring back a character only to destroy that character?

Unless.......someone didn't like that some fans were sending in letters and mails in which they expressed their wish to have Kes back and decided to teach those ungrateful people a lesson.

And "someone" could probably justify the creation of such an episode in some way for the higher authorities and get the necessary money for it as well. "Oh, it will be an episode full with action and explosions. Just what the fans want! Not to mention that many fans will be happy to se JL back again!"

Just because some persons are in charge of Star Trek of all shows doesn't have to mean that those persons are nice and benevolent persons who really care about the show and its fans. In that case we wouldn't have had episodes like "The Gift", "Fury" and "Endgame".

And I can't possibly think that they thought that the fans of Kes would like or appreciate that episode. If that's what they thought, then they are bigger idiots than I ever think is possible to be and I don't think they are idiots. In that case they would never be in charge of a show.

After the bad reviews of the episode, there were some statements from those in charge about the episode "didn't turn out the way we wanted it". I guess that's because they weren't allowed to kill off the character as they actually planned to do.

The fact that Braga, Fuller and Michael Taylor spent the Christmas holiday to come up with such a horrible, insulting story just makes the situation even more morbid.
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Old November 27 2013, 07:16 PM   #257
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

The Fury that we got: You are a bitter horrible twisted prick, but take a beat, think back to the good old days and re-evaluate how twisted your prick really is. Oh my how could I have forgotten there is so much hope and love in the world!

The Fury we almost got: You are a bitter horrible twisted prick, and no one cares if you die, so why don't you die? #### off and die.
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Old November 27 2013, 08:07 PM   #258
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Let's see, Kes has miscomphesion and due to it comes back to villianize the innocent crew of Voyager.
Kes fans have miscomphensions about script writing and due to it villainize the writing staff of the show.

Interesting.

.....and for those that actually care to learn TV production, "Fury" wasn't written over any holiday season because shows stop production in late Oct. or early Nov.
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Old November 27 2013, 08:50 PM   #259
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

As far as the rewrite goes, they had a balanced and thematic story where everything was conceptually leading to her death. With foreshadow and dread is how they were writing about the end of this girl. It was a mercy killing.

They didn't rewrite the entire script. Just the last 5 pages.

There was a 2 hundred year period in the middle where some assholes decided that Cordelia should survive the end of King Lear, because the only decent person in the whole thing shouldn't get done in by... Is it alright to call Reagan and Goneral bitches?

One of them took their fathers eyes out with a spoon.
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Old November 27 2013, 10:53 PM   #260
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

exodus wrote: View Post

.....and for those that actually care to learn TV production, "Fury" wasn't written over any holiday season because shows stop production in late Oct. or early Nov.
So it's not a Christmas card to the fans?
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Old November 27 2013, 11:17 PM   #261
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

exodus wrote: View Post
Let's see, Kes has miscomphesion and due to it comes back to villianize the innocent crew of Voyager.
Kes fans have miscomphensions about script writing and due to it villainize the writing staff of the show.

Interesting.

.....and for those that actually care to learn TV production, "Fury" wasn't written over any holiday season because shows stop production in late Oct. or early Nov.
Well, my motto has always been "Don't get mad-get even"

As for the statement about "Fury" being written during the Christmas holiday, I did read that a couple of years ago in an interview with Braga. I think it was on the TrekCore page. Unfortunately, I can't find it despite three hours of Google searching and I do have to sleep now to be fit for work tomorrow. But I will continue my search. Maybe someone else will remember it as well.

And believe me, not even me can come up with such a horrible scenario.

Not to mention that the humiliation and destruction of the character is bad enough as it is.
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Old November 27 2013, 11:52 PM   #262
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

I never said I couldn't imagine Kes doing anything wrong. I can't imagine her killing her friends though, and she starts off the episode doing just that, even if it was an alternate timeline.
The problem was that they only rewrote the end, when at the least the whole thing needed a massive rewrite. Maybe if they had used the big reset button they were so fond of and had Kes stopped herself from the whole thing happening at all, and at the end we saw Kes happy on Ocampa leading her people to live their lives with bravery and an independent spirit, something like that, then the episode could've been better. If they had managed to put some hope into Kes's future it might've worked better. As it was, yes, Kes did stop herself, but old Kes still left Voyager angry and broken, she just had backed off from her killing spree, and had nothing left for her but to return to the backwards little world she had fled with a desire to see more of the universe. What kind of message does that send? The end for Kes was still so depressing and bleak it really ruins Kes's whole story arc. I can't think of any other major Trek character that got treated that badly.
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Old November 28 2013, 12:52 AM   #263
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Really?

Because I tend to think that it was the second half of the story that was set in an alternate time line, and that the Voyager story carried on from there because they didn't want to fire Roxanne Dawson since her character was pushing daises in the original timeline.
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Old November 28 2013, 01:03 AM   #264
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Really?

Because I tend to think that it was the second half of the story that was set in an alternate time line, and that the Voyager story carried on from there because they didn't want to fire Roxanne Dawson since her character was pushing daises in the original timeline.
I can't argue with your logic.
That scenerio makes what Kes did possibly slightly worse.
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Old November 28 2013, 01:18 AM   #265
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Have you noticed that this decanonizes %90 of your Voyager dvd collection.
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Old November 28 2013, 01:33 AM   #266
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Have you noticed that this decanonizes %90 of your Voyager dvd collection.
Yes. Yes I have.
It makes me think about Stargate SG-1, in one of the later episodes, possibly a season finale around seasons 8 or 9, the lead characters realize at the end of a trippy alternate reality story that some detail is slightly off and they're now living in a slightly different AU.
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Old November 28 2013, 01:35 AM   #267
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

There's fish in O'Niels pond.
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Old November 28 2013, 01:44 AM   #268
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There's fish in O'Niels pond.
Right, thanks. I remembered they were fishing, but not what the actual change was. I love alternate reality stuff, and it is funny that they never addressed it again so presumably they are living in an AU after that.
And I guess Voyager is too.
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Old November 28 2013, 02:12 AM   #269
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Let's see, Kes has miscomphesion and due to it comes back to villianize the innocent crew of Voyager.
Kes fans have miscomphensions about script writing and due to it villainize the writing staff of the show.

Interesting.

.....and for those that actually care to learn TV production, "Fury" wasn't written over any holiday season because shows stop production in late Oct. or early Nov.
Well, my motto has always been "Don't get mad-get even"
Well, if you truly believe that "Fury" is a big "Fuck You" to your letter writing campaign. Then look what it got you.
They still got the last laugh by getting even.

Just sayin'.
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Old November 28 2013, 02:13 AM   #270
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There's fish in O'Niels pond.
In both those realities there are two l's.
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