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Old November 24 2013, 05:19 AM   #136
borgboy
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

exodus wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
I loved Kes's relationship with the Doctor, she saw him as a sentient being, no questions or reservations, even before he started thinking of himself that way. Being a nurse didn't have to be a limitation though, she could've been the primary medical personnel on away mission since for a long time the Doctor couldn't leave sickbay.
Kes should've had more maturing to do, but her development still came and could've come in different directions. Her outgrowing Neelix was a move in the right direction. She could've gone on to have a relationship with Paris, even had the baby we saw her have in The Year of Hell.
I find it a little offensive to basicly be told I'm creepy and unhealthy for caring about Kes. If we're not supposed to care about the characters, why are any of us even here? It's an easy insult to shut down someone's opinions it seems like.
I never called you creepy or unhealthy nor do I consider you such, Guy implied it.
I should have quoted Guy, but that's who I was referring to. Sorry if I led you to think I was directed my remark to you exodus, that wasn't my intention.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:24 AM   #137
exodus
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

borgboy wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
I loved Kes's relationship with the Doctor, she saw him as a sentient being, no questions or reservations, even before he started thinking of himself that way. Being a nurse didn't have to be a limitation though, she could've been the primary medical personnel on away mission since for a long time the Doctor couldn't leave sickbay.
Kes should've had more maturing to do, but her development still came and could've come in different directions. Her outgrowing Neelix was a move in the right direction. She could've gone on to have a relationship with Paris, even had the baby we saw her have in The Year of Hell.
I find it a little offensive to basicly be told I'm creepy and unhealthy for caring about Kes. If we're not supposed to care about the characters, why are any of us even here? It's an easy insult to shut down someone's opinions it seems like.
I never called you creepy or unhealthy nor do I consider you such, Guy implied it.
I should have quoted Guy, but that's who I was referring to. Sorry if I led you to think I was directed my remark to you exodus, that wasn't my intention.
It's cool.


Anyway, back too Kes......

I don't know about the Tom/Kes relationship.
If Kes with Neelix is joked about as pedophilia, why isn't Tom/Kes also?
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Old November 24 2013, 05:32 AM   #138
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

By being offended by the creepy stigma you chose to accept the fanatical infatuation label.

Would you say that you "care" for the character or that you are "fanatically infatuated"?

I didn't say that caring is creepy, I said fanatical infatuation is creepy.

I say that you are fanatically infatuated if you own more than ten Kes T-Shirts.

Of course others would say that you are fanatically infatuated if you've seen more than Ten episodes of Star trek.

There's a spectrum between getting drunk watching the Rugby, and sitting down to devour the season 4 DS9 Boxset over a week end, and the people at either end have very little respect for each other.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:37 AM   #139
exodus
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

....or you could just say: "Sorry if what I said offended you."
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Old November 24 2013, 05:51 AM   #140
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Yesterday, you were nice.

One day here and it's back to Lord of the Flies.
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Old November 24 2013, 05:58 AM   #141
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Suggesting you simply say sorry isn't being nice?
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Old November 24 2013, 06:15 AM   #142
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Assholes don't apologise when they should apologise.

You suggested that this is a situation where I should apologise.

I disagree.

Therefore I am an asshole.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:26 AM   #143
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

I'm not accepting any labels, I just acknowledge that the remarks were being aimed at me. I'm passionate about Star Trek, and Kes is one of my very favorites. This is a thread about Kes, so I'm discussing her. I care about Kes, much in the way other people I know are seriously into their favorite athletes or reality tv show stars. I think it would be nice if we all stayed away from name calling, even if it's implied.

As for Kes and Tom, and the whole age thing. I didn't have a problem with Kes's age even when she was with Neelix. Well, not much. She's an alien with a different life cycle than ours. She seemed to be a young adult, and was being played by a young adult, so that's how I saw her. I never really thought they were a good match, but I did like that she cared about Neelix, and that her values on attractiveness seem to be pretty different than ours. For that matter, do we even know if Kes and Neelix were intimate? I don't recall off the top of my head if we knew if they were sharing quarters. I think they were, but my memory is pretty terrible.
But whatever issues with her age anybody would have, surely by the time the Year of Hell was going to happen Kes would be mature enough to have a relationship.
Now what did freak me out is the alternate timeline where Kes and Tom's daughter married Harry. That's just gross. He was there from the time she was born, surely like an uncle to her. How he could get together with a woman after seeing her grow up from birth, that is disturbing. I do get that she was going to live her whole life probably around people who knew her as a child, but you'd think she'd have gotten with someone not as close to her family. I imagine Kes probably didn't have much of a problem with it, as she'd have a different pov about the age issue, but I'm sure Tom didn't take it well.
If Kes did stay I wonder if that's where the story was going. Not exactly of course, but at least a relationship with Kes and Tom instead of Tom and B'lanna.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:31 AM   #144
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Of course they grow so fast that Harry could have been trapped in the Holodeck for a few episodes and come out and BOOM the baby he spent five minutes looking at was now an adult.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:39 AM   #145
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Kes was a young adult at one year old, but her daughter was supposed to have aged slower - or possibly was just expected to live longer, right?
I always felt kind of bad that Kes's daughter and grandson never got born. I'd think for Kes, who had memories of them, that would be sort of like they died.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:45 AM   #146
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

People always seem to walk away from their alternate reality families without looking back.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:51 AM   #147
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

I get that in episodic tv that's pretty normal, but in my imagination Kes had some grief and angst about the loss.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:52 AM   #148
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

You mean like how Janeway and Tom were in mourning for all those seasons?
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Old November 24 2013, 06:57 AM   #149
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Both the Captain and the Doctor had the right to veto the Kim wedding on legal/medical/ethical grounds.

Although, between daddy and being born on a Starship, Linnis Paris should have had the full rights of a Federation Citizen and should have been able to sue Janeway to officiate her wedding.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:58 AM   #150
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

I remember watching some show or movie..where the main character was suddenly in an alternative timeline life with a husband and a couple of red haired kids. And the whole episode/movie she was trying to get back which would erase this timeline when she did it and she succeeded and there didn't seem to be any agonizing over erasing these kids from existence
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