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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 26 2013, 06:44 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
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It bugged me that Enterprise NX-01 didn't have one. Piloting a giant starship and FTL speeds should be a two-man job before it becomes a one-man job!
So you wanna cut Mayweather's screen time in half? Poor guy. He'd be the Morn of ENT then.
Nah, have a transporter malfunction duplicate him and we can have side-by-side Mayweathers!
Both of them combined still wouldn't get as much screen time as one of T'Pol's breasts. Almost as many lines too.
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Old October 26 2013, 07:11 PM   #17
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

SignGuyHPW wrote: View Post
Why was Voyager equipped with only a helm station and not seperate helm and navigation stations like most other ships? They could've put Kim in the Navigation spot instead of whatever his spot was called.
Actually, they did. Kim's station was the Ops position, which, on the Enterprise-D was Wesley's station to the right of Data. The VOYAGER guys just put it at the back of the bridge.

So, technically, I guess you could say Kim was the Navigator.
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Old October 26 2013, 07:21 PM   #18
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

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Actually, they did. Kim's station was the Ops position, which, on the Enterprise-D was Wesley's station to the right of Data.
No. One more time: Wesley's station was called Conn -- i.e. flight control, combining helm and navigation. Data's station was called Ops -- i.e. operations management, the coordination of ship's systems and allocation of its resources. Data and Harry were operations managers, which is why they wore gold, the color of the operations division. Wesley and Tom Paris were conn officers, i.e. pilots, which is why they wore red (just as Sulu and Chekov wore gold in the 23rd century when the colors were the other way around -- traditionally, flight controllers wear the command-division color).

So no, Kim was not the navigator. He was the ops manager and, like Data, filled the de facto role of science officer. (This doesn't make a lot of sense, but since operations management entails allocating sensor resources and coordinating crew reports and activities, it could be that an ops manager on a research vessel would be largely responsible for overseeing the ship's scientific activities and thus might effectively function as the science officer.)
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Old October 26 2013, 08:33 PM   #19
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

They sure called it helm most of the time... transferring coordinates to the helm... helm set course so and so.... and so forth.
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Old October 26 2013, 09:01 PM   #20
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

Right. Helm and conn are interchangeable terms. But neither of them has anything to do with ops, Data, or Harry Kim.
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Old October 26 2013, 09:10 PM   #21
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

I'm surprised no one's made a joke yet about not having a nav station being why Voyager got lost in the Delta Quadrant. Or, they could've gotten home faster, if only they'd had a nav station!
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Old October 26 2013, 09:21 PM   #22
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

^Perhaps it's because by the time VGR came along, we'd had seven years to get used to helm and navigation being combined in the conn station.
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Old October 26 2013, 10:09 PM   #23
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

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I always figured NX-01 only needed the one station because it was a smaller ship with a less complicated propulsion system. Or something. Maybe they started out assuming only one pilot would be needed, then realized that put a lot of demands on one person and it'd be easier to make it a two-person job, but then eventually the automation got advanced enough that only one person was needed after all.
I know you've presented this theory before, and it's starting to make a bit of sense to me now. Roddenberry was an aircraft pilot, and in WWII ships of the type he flew had a separate navigator's station. As technology advanced, navigation duties were eventually handled by computer on larger craft like 747s.

So perhaps during early starship development, those same advanced navigation systems were adapted to the NX class. By the time of NCC-1701, they realized they needed the separate navigator station again.
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Old October 27 2013, 12:30 AM   #24
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

In my novel Enterprise: Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures, I do offer an explanation for the addition of a dedicated navigator's station in later ship designs. IIRC, it was so that ships would be able to rely on ongoing, real-time updating of object tracking and navigational data rather than relying on pre-existing maps that might be rendered obsolete by changing conditions. So basically, where NX-01 was constantly relying on "the Vulcan star charts," later ships had navigators whose job it was to maintain and update the charts on a continuous basis, based on things like sensor data and up-to-the-minute status reports from other ships and stations.
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Old October 27 2013, 12:34 AM   #25
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
GoRe Star wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

It bugged me that Enterprise NX-01 didn't have one. Piloting a giant starship and FTL speeds should be a two-man job before it becomes a one-man job!
So you wanna cut Mayweather's screen time in half? Poor guy. He'd be the Morn of ENT then.
Nah, have a transporter malfunction duplicate him and we can have side-by-side Mayweathers!


Double the silence. Double the pecs!
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Old October 27 2013, 02:24 AM   #26
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

The helm console on Voyager's bridge is fairly wide, in comparison both with the other consoles on the Voyager bridge and with the helm console the Enterprise-D bridge. Tom often rolled his chair around the console to press buttons for special purposes.

I thought that both of those factors indicated the need for two people to be sitting at the console, for Tom to have a copilot, especially during combat. I don't recall whether there were times when Tom did have a copilot.
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Old October 27 2013, 03:11 AM   #27
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

Tom's a hands-on, touchy-feely type of guy. See the Delta Flyer's controls and the Delaney Sisters.
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Old October 27 2013, 03:35 AM   #28
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

Closed Caption wrote: View Post
The helm console on Voyager's bridge is fairly wide, in comparison both with the other consoles on the Voyager bridge and with the helm console the Enterprise-D bridge. Tom often rolled his chair around the console to press buttons for special purposes.

I thought that both of those factors indicated the need for two people to be sitting at the console, for Tom to have a copilot, especially during combat. I don't recall whether there were times when Tom did have a copilot.
No, if that had been the case, we would've seen Stadi with a copilot/navigator before the ship's abduction, when it was fully staffed. But we didn't. And the console was designed with a track for the seat to slide on, something that wouldn't have been needed if there were meant to be two people side by side. It was always meant to be a one-man console. Note that NX-01's helm also had a seat that slid back and forth on a track. It's probably just something the show's designers put in to make the operation of the helm look more dynamic.

Besides, the Galaxy-class starships, the hugest vessels in the fleet, had one-person conn stations, so why would the newer and smaller Intrepid class be so comparatively primitive as to require two people to do the job? We have never, as far as I can recall, seen any 24th-century starship that needed more than one flight controller. Separate helm and navigation stations are unique to the 23rd century.
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Old October 27 2013, 03:39 AM   #29
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

^ My point is that needing to slide implies having some controls out of reach at all times. That doesn't sound like a good idea, though admittedly failing to fix the problem of exploding consoles going on 100 years after TOS seems like a more serious problem.
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Old October 27 2013, 03:44 AM   #30
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Re: Why was their not a navigation station?

^Sure, I'm not saying it's a good design. There are lots of designs in Trek that are highly impractical. I'm just saying that it was always intended to be a one-person station.
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