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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Ceremony of Losses.
Outstanding 65 60.75%
Above Average 35 32.71%
Average 6 5.61%
Below Average 1 0.93%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 30 2013, 11:21 PM   #61
David Mack
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hm. I know there were Breen in that prison. But it was run by Jem'Hadar. Maybe we can retcon it to say he had a Breen cellmate and their relationship was … complicated.

Or we can all just agree to pretend that line in Chapter 30 really says "prisoner of the Dominion" and let it go.
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Old October 30 2013, 11:41 PM   #62
CaptainDonovin
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm 50 kr so pages into it & love it so far. Like the two Bond references.
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Old October 31 2013, 03:03 AM   #63
JWolf
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

j3067 wrote: View Post
I just started reading this one today. I LOVED the Pinky and the Brain reference at the end of chapter three. I now have my hopes up for some, "Shar, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" action throughout the rest of the story.

"I think so Professor, but how are we going to get the thollian on a snowboard?"
I loved that reference. It's a LOL moment.

I'm still not done, but I am past that part now.
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Old October 31 2013, 04:52 AM   #64
ITCH
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm going to play the 's advocate for a moment.

I didn’t find President Ishan behavior too off the mark because I have met people like that during my personal and professional life. Heck! I can cite real live politician from presidents to dictators that behave like that one time or another.


It’s been my experience that sometimes no matter how many charts, numbers and reasons you present to prove something is wrong to some people because they just clam up, make a tantrum of power and lead us all to disaster because that particular project was his or her idea so, it’s not about reason, it’s about pride. You read Ishan reasoning of why he doesn’t want to be perceived as “weak” for being so “condescending” to Andor. That’s another way to say that he won’t be “less strong” if compared to Bacco who led the Federation during the Borg invasion.


I also met CEOs who do not talk to anybody in the food chain unless is a mayor carnivore and being the top carnivore he or she can jump to any section of the food chain just like Ishan did while he contacted directly any captain he could think of. So I completely understand his behavior when Bashir “dare” to talk to him directly because to his eyes, Bashir is only grass in the food chain!.


And last, if I were to put myself in Ishan shoes I would think: “20 years ago my people were dying at the hands of the Cardassians and the Federation (including Andor) did nothing even when we would have welcome its help. And now, Andor turn his back on us, refuse our help, joined hands with our enemies, and these damn starfleeters want me to help them?! Well s#$% them!”
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Old October 31 2013, 05:17 AM   #65
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

VDCNI wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
This wasn't very good - on the plus side it's well-written and the character of Bashir get some good moments but that is outweighed by the problems with the book that are numerous.

I enjoyed it more than you but would agree the portrayal of the President went way over the top - I expected him to give an evil cackle after every line.
I found Ishan Anjar to be entirely too plausible in his belligerent nationalism. I've met people like him, and frankly view more than a few politicians today as holding values similar to his. I did not see him as Snidely Whiplash -- I saw him as Norah Satie.

It's interesting - we've had a lot of books in the first few years covering the political aspect of the Federation and its members and it does feel that the politicans rarely come out of it well. It fits with our cynical world but jars somewhat in the supposedly more muture & open society of the Federation.
Well, I think the books have a fairly positive portrayal of politicians such as Nanietta Bacco, Cort Enaren, T'Latrek, etc. It's the Min Zifes, Koll Azernals, and Ishan Anjars who come across negatively.

Star Trek has never wanted for corrupt high officials -- the infamous Evil Admirals -- but I think that one of the things we're seeing in modern TrekLit's depiction of Federation leaders is a (perhaps unintentional) long-term meditation on the difficulties in maintaining a government and a political culture which embrace enlightened values, in reflection of the internal conflicts American political culture has suffered in post-9/11 era.
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Old October 31 2013, 06:00 AM   #66
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Regarding the captain of the Warspite



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Old October 31 2013, 09:50 AM   #67
Annorax
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Stephen! wrote: View Post
DS9forever wrote: View Post
Bashir recalls being a prisoner of the Breen during the Dominion War.
That was during the early episodes of the final Deep Space Nine arc.
Worf was a prisoner of the Breen, not Bashir. Bashir was a prisoner in a Jem'hadar camp with Garak and Enabran Tain. "Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast" etc.
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Old October 31 2013, 10:02 AM   #68
Dimesdan
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Annorax wrote: View Post
Stephen! wrote: View Post
DS9forever wrote: View Post
Bashir recalls being a prisoner of the Breen during the Dominion War.
That was during the early episodes of the final Deep Space Nine arc.
Worf was a prisoner of the Breen, not Bashir. Bashir was a prisoner in a Jem'hadar camp with Garak and Enabran Tain. "Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast" etc.
Well, Mr Mack did say this way back in post 49 of this very thread:

David Mack wrote: View Post
Hm. I know there were Breen in that prison. But it was run by Jem'Hadar. Maybe we can retcon it to say he had a Breen cellmate and their relationship was … complicated.

Or we can all just agree to pretend that line in Chapter 30 really says "prisoner of the Dominion" and let it go.
Oh and it was the season five episodes In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light that we discover that the good doctor had been replaced by a Changling and was being held at the Dominion's pleasure. The episodes you cited Annorax were when Odo was being held and the OO and TS launched their per-empitive strike on the Founders home world.

As for the book, am reading it, according to my Nook, I'm 56 pages in and it's an enjoyable read thus far but from reading some of the comments on here, I think I'm only just hitting the "meat" of the story now.
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Old October 31 2013, 04:17 PM   #69
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Found a copy yesterday and am about 100 pages in. Since no one else has mentioned the "Lost" reference, I will. There's a "Lost" reference.
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Old October 31 2013, 06:59 PM   #70
Ronald Held
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Half way through and am finding it interesting. I wonder how many more novels before the Federation election is over?
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Old October 31 2013, 07:03 PM   #71
JoeZhang
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Half way through and am finding it interesting. I wonder how many more novels before the Federation election is over?
I would think it will be wrapped up in the next one given the arc we have seen.
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Old October 31 2013, 07:59 PM   #72
Mage
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Half way through and am finding it interesting. I wonder how many more novels before the Federation election is over?
I would think it will be wrapped up in the next one given the arc we have seen.

It was said that The Fall would cover a period of 60 days. The days it takes for the new election would be after 60 days. So I'm guessing the last novel will end with the election.
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Old October 31 2013, 10:53 PM   #73
Nob Akimoto
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

"The Fall" is evidently a specific event, too, within the universe. The Crimson Shadow epilogue notes it's "after the Fall". So maybe it has to do with the special election.
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Old November 1 2013, 12:38 AM   #74
Elias Vaughn
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

j3067 wrote: View Post
I just started reading this one today. I LOVED the Pinky and the Brain reference at the end of chapter three. I now have my hopes up for some, "Shar, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" action throughout the rest of the story.

"I think so Professor, but how are we going to get the thollian on a snowboard?"
That was one of a few laugh-out-loud moments, but I think my favorite was the name of one Klingon ship - the I.K.S. ghung'HoH.
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Old November 1 2013, 12:40 AM   #75
David Mack
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ I was wondering when someone would catch that. The best part is, it makes sense once translated: it means (roughly) "hungry for the kill."
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