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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Ceremony of Losses.
Outstanding 65 61.32%
Above Average 34 32.08%
Average 6 5.66%
Below Average 1 0.94%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 9 2013, 03:46 PM   #271
JeBuS
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

NurseChapel39 wrote: View Post
Funny, I thought the Andorian news service was more similar to MSNBC. They are essentially just cheerleaders for the current administration. By the way, "tea baggers" is a really offensive term.
The thing is, nobody actually watches MSNBC. So the fact that they're a horrible news service isn't of much import. As opposed to Fox.
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Old December 9 2013, 04:14 PM   #272
DEWLine
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Explain Rachel Maddow, then.

(Wondering who her equivalent in the UFP poli-sci-news landscape might be...)
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Old December 9 2013, 06:04 PM   #273
ToddCam
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

NurseChapel39 wrote: View Post
Funny, I thought the Andorian news service was more similar to MSNBC. They are essentially just cheerleaders for the current administration. By the way, "tea baggers" is a really offensive term.
Given Mack's political views, I would be surprised if that was what he was going for.

Also, tea baggers called themselves that first. It's not anybody else's fault that they didn't do the research.
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Old December 21 2013, 01:37 AM   #274
David Mack
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

In case anyone's still interested, I recently took part in a lengthy podcast with the folks at Trekmate.org.uk about A Ceremony of Losses, its connections to both Zero Sum Game and the upcoming Section 31: Disavowed, and more — including my participation in the Kickstarter for a cool new anthology called Athena's Daughters.

Check out the podcast here.
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Old December 21 2013, 03:41 PM   #275
DS9forever
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Has Section 31: Disavowed been approved by Pocket then? Neat!
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Old December 21 2013, 04:41 PM   #276
David Mack
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ Yes, some time ago. I'm writing the manuscript now.
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Old December 22 2013, 06:20 PM   #277
Reanok
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Great podcast interview and I really liked the discusion how your books Zero Sum game and ceremony of losses stories will tie into your next novel Disavowed. Sounds like it will be a terrific story about Julian Bashir dealing with Section 31.
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Old December 22 2013, 08:35 PM   #278
British Khan
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm reading this book right now and I noticed two interesting lines.

"So, what are we going to do today, Professor?"
"The same thing we do everyday, Shar. Trying to save the world".

So Mr. Mack is this a Pinky and the Brain reference?
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Old December 22 2013, 08:49 PM   #279
DEWLine
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Looking forward to Disavowed.

And yeah..."Bluey and the Brain", that was, there...or so my uninformed suspicion runs. :-)
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Old December 22 2013, 09:38 PM   #280
David Mack
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

British Khan wrote: View Post
I'm reading this book right now and I noticed two interesting lines.

"So, what are we going to do today, Professor?"
"The same thing we do everyday, Shar. Trying to save the world".

So Mr. Mack is this a Pinky and the Brain reference?
Already confirmed upthread.
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Old January 18 2014, 05:04 PM   #281
Stephen!
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The Federation (Or at least Ishan) seemed to object to giving the Andorians the cure, because it contained a small faction of the meta-genome data and considered it a security risk.

Wouldn't this be a moot point, since Andoria already had a copy of the meta-genome data anyway? So they'd just be giving Andoria access to data they already had. Granted, the scientists didn't have complete access to all of the data.

Or claiming it was a security risk was just a smokescreen and it was more about spiting Andoria for leaving the Federation?
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Old January 18 2014, 05:15 PM   #282
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Keeping a tighter lid on the data than was good for Andorians' long-term species health was Ishan's personal hobby, it seems.

Keeping the truth about Operation Vanguard in general off the public radar was the same for a particular set of 23rd Century admirals. Small wonder the Tholians have stayed so PO'ed for so long.
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Old January 18 2014, 05:21 PM   #283
Elias Vaughn
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Stephen! wrote: View Post
The Federation (Or at least Ishan) seemed to object to giving the Andorians the cure, because it contained a small faction of the meta-genome data and considered it a security risk.

Wouldn't this be a moot point, since Andoria already had a copy of the meta-genome data anyway? So they'd just be giving Andoria access to data they already had. Granted, the scientists didn't have complete access to all of the data.

Or claiming it was a security risk was just a smokescreen and it was more about spiting Andoria for leaving the Federation?
As I understand it, Ishan was less concerned with the Meta Genome data and more concerned with punishing the entire Andorian people for the slight of leaving the Federation. Before they seceded, no one currently in a position of power in Starfleet/the Federation government even knew what the genome data was, and the Federation has a history of over compartmentalizing data that later becomes relevant - their history with the Borg comes to mind.
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Old January 19 2014, 04:55 AM   #284
Snaploud
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's a bit convoluted, but I believe Andoria never had the full meta-genome. The previous Andorian government only had the pieces of the meta-genome the Tholians felt was absolutely necessary for the cure. [Though, the assumption seemed to be that the data given to Andoria was limited enough that a cure would take several years. Those years were largely wasted because the Andorian government had withheld much of that information from the scientists.]

My guess is that the Tholian's idea of a cure was a lot different from Bashir's idea of cure. Bashir was looking for a quick solution, and, as a result, his cure isn't very targeted. He had to give the Andorian people longer life-spans and greater intelligence to make his cure work.

Last edited by Snaploud; January 19 2014 at 05:09 AM.
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Old January 19 2014, 10:00 AM   #285
Sci
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Re: TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Stephen! wrote: View Post
The Federation (Or at least Ishan) seemed to object to giving the Andorians the cure, because it contained a small faction of the meta-genome data and considered it a security risk.
No, that was Ishan's excuse. His real reason for withholding the Meta-Genome from the Andorians was twofold:

1. He felt that Andor's secession was an act of betrayal and that to give the genome to work with the Andorians to find a cure would be tantamount to telling every Federation world that the best way to get something from the UFP government would be to threaten secession.

2. Already prone to viewing Andor as an enemy, he wished to propagate that antagonistic view towards them throughout the rest of the Federation and prop up his own national security credentials by imposing his unilateral embargo. This would propagate his views and would boost his political support for the special election.

Like the Treyisha-aligned Andorian administration, Ishan's intent was apparently to give the Andorians the necessary data at some point after the election... probably after making the Andorians come crawling back on their hands and knees. What justified Bashir's decision to defy Ishan was that doing so carried a significant probability that doing so would lead to irreversible population loss.

Wouldn't this be a moot point, since Andoria already had a copy of the meta-genome data anyway? So they'd just be giving Andoria access to data they already had. Granted, the scientists didn't have complete access to all of the data.
That seems to have been why the Federation didn't just offer the relevant sections of the Taurus Meta-Genome back in 2383, under the Bacco administration. By the time of The Fall, it appears that the Federation had only just determined that somebody was withholding the Tholian data from the Andorian Science Institute when Bashir's subterfuge was detected.

Or claiming it was a security risk was just a smokescreen and it was more about spiting Andoria for leaving the Federation?
I am reminded of the lyrics to a song from the musical Spring Awakening:

"Yeah, you're fucked alright
And all for spite."
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