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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 9 2013, 06:39 PM   #61
BillJ
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good director would have at least demanded rewrites. A director doesn't have to settle with what he has.
When Berman was running the show, I'm pretty sure the director had little to no say in the actual script. They tried to get Nimoy to direct Star Trek: Generations, but he passed when they refused to do rewrites based on his input.
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Old November 9 2013, 06:48 PM   #62
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

BillJ wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good director would have at least demanded rewrites. A director doesn't have to settle with what he has.
When Berman was running the show, I'm pretty sure the director had little to no say in the actual script. They tried to get Nimoy to direct Star Trek: Generations, but he passed when they refused to do rewrites based on his input.
Which is why I brought up the Berman factor in that post. Even with Michael Piller writing INSURRECTION, there's no escaping it. Wasn't Patrick Stewart also credited as a producer? That must have really made things more difficult, hence after FIRST CONTACT that Picard became a gun totting action man when it should have been an exception in FC rather than becoming the rule.
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Old November 9 2013, 06:55 PM   #63
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Which is why I brought up the Berman factor in that post. Even with Michael Piller writing INSURRECTION, there's no escaping it. Wasn't Patrick Stewart also credited as a producer? That must have really made things more difficult, hence after FIRST CONTACT that Picard became a gun totting action man when it should have been an exception in FC rather than becoming the rule.
Stewart and Spiner had the ultimate hammers when it came to the TNG films, they could simply refuse to do them if the scripts weren't to their liking.

It wasn't Baird or Logan or Piller who killed the movie franchise, it was Stewart and Spiner.
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Old November 10 2013, 12:41 AM   #64
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Such a shame too, especially with Stewart. He plays Picard so well that you think he'd know what was appropriate for Picard other than "more fighting and screwing". Just shows you that the TNG films were doomed no matter what.
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Old November 10 2013, 08:54 AM   #65
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good director would have at least demanded rewrites. A director doesn't have to settle with what he has. I don't blame Logan so much because he was working with a director that shouldn't direct and a producer who doesn't know how to write. I'm sure had Frakes directed and Berman was less insistent in being involved on the development of the script (along with the demands by Stewart and Spiner), that Logan might have turned out something better. SKYFALL is a good example of when a writer like Logan is paired with a competent director and producers (though I'm sure trevanian will greatly disagree with me on that). I remember first hearing the news of Logan writing SKYFALL that I took it as bad news, mainly because I only knew of him through NEMESIS. Then came the second shock, that SKYFALL was actually good, which made me reevaluate what the hell happened with NEMESIS.
skyfall was a forgettable film. the first hour was nice, then all these unbelievable things happen. and then they decide the best area of defense is a house. it was stupid. the writing was bad. remember when they escape through the underground tunnel and the old guy has his flash light on??? why would you turn your flashlight on and alert everyone to your whereabouts. that was just the icing on the cake. if your using skyfall as an excuse to forgive the awful writing done on Nemesis, youre not going to get very far.
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Old November 10 2013, 10:57 AM   #66
MakeshiftPython
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

ChowdaHead wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good director would have at least demanded rewrites. A director doesn't have to settle with what he has. I don't blame Logan so much because he was working with a director that shouldn't direct and a producer who doesn't know how to write. I'm sure had Frakes directed and Berman was less insistent in being involved on the development of the script (along with the demands by Stewart and Spiner), that Logan might have turned out something better. SKYFALL is a good example of when a writer like Logan is paired with a competent director and producers (though I'm sure trevanian will greatly disagree with me on that). I remember first hearing the news of Logan writing SKYFALL that I took it as bad news, mainly because I only knew of him through NEMESIS. Then came the second shock, that SKYFALL was actually good, which made me reevaluate what the hell happened with NEMESIS.
skyfall was a forgettable film. the first hour was nice, then all these unbelievable things happen. and then they decide the best area of defense is a house. it was stupid. the writing was bad. remember when they escape through the underground tunnel and the old guy has his flash light on??? why would you turn your flashlight on and alert everyone to your whereabouts. that was just the icing on the cake. if your using skyfall as an excuse to forgive the awful writing done on Nemesis, youre not going to get very far.
I didn't forgive NEMESIS for anything, it's still a crap film. I only brought up SF as an example of Logan working with better filmmakers (funny thing, Baird did work on SF, but as an editor, which he's 100x better at than directing). I've heard those complaints of SF, they don't really hold up. I mean, flashlights? I mostly love the climax because it reminds me of a western with the heroes preparing to take on the bad guys on their own terms.

Also, why do you only type in lower cases?
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Old November 11 2013, 07:21 AM   #67
ChowdaHead
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
ChowdaHead wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good director would have at least demanded rewrites. A director doesn't have to settle with what he has. I don't blame Logan so much because he was working with a director that shouldn't direct and a producer who doesn't know how to write. I'm sure had Frakes directed and Berman was less insistent in being involved on the development of the script (along with the demands by Stewart and Spiner), that Logan might have turned out something better. SKYFALL is a good example of when a writer like Logan is paired with a competent director and producers (though I'm sure trevanian will greatly disagree with me on that). I remember first hearing the news of Logan writing SKYFALL that I took it as bad news, mainly because I only knew of him through NEMESIS. Then came the second shock, that SKYFALL was actually good, which made me reevaluate what the hell happened with NEMESIS.
skyfall was a forgettable film. the first hour was nice, then all these unbelievable things happen. and then they decide the best area of defense is a house. it was stupid. the writing was bad. remember when they escape through the underground tunnel and the old guy has his flash light on??? why would you turn your flashlight on and alert everyone to your whereabouts. that was just the icing on the cake. if your using skyfall as an excuse to forgive the awful writing done on Nemesis, youre not going to get very far.
I didn't forgive NEMESIS for anything, it's still a crap film. I only brought up SF as an example of Logan working with better filmmakers (funny thing, Baird did work on SF, but as an editor, which he's 100x better at than directing). I've heard those complaints of SF, they don't really hold up. I mean, flashlights? I mostly love the climax because it reminds me of a western with the heroes preparing to take on the bad guys on their own terms.

Also, why do you only type in lower cases?
because I type faster when I don't have to mess with the shift key, darling.
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Old November 11 2013, 07:26 AM   #68
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

BillJ wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Which is why I brought up the Berman factor in that post. Even with Michael Piller writing INSURRECTION, there's no escaping it. Wasn't Patrick Stewart also credited as a producer? That must have really made things more difficult, hence after FIRST CONTACT that Picard became a gun totting action man when it should have been an exception in FC rather than becoming the rule.
Stewart and Spiner had the ultimate hammers when it came to the TNG films, they could simply refuse to do them if the scripts weren't to their liking.

It wasn't Baird or Logan or Piller who killed the movie franchise, it was Stewart and Spiner.
I agree, fuck them both! idiots!
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Old November 14 2013, 01:29 AM   #69
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Let's not be too hasty ...
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Old November 17 2013, 01:54 PM   #70
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I think I like Nemesis more than most people, but I agree it's flawed, and too depressing.
I like Hardy in the movie. Any problems are with the script and direction imo, not the actor.
With all the doom and gloom with Picard losing a sort of son and Data's death, I'd have loved for the relationship with Picard and Beverly to finally give into their feelings and begin a romance. With Wesley around they could've even used him as a surrogate son for Picard, let him end with love and a family. The Picard/Beverly romance subplot had been simmering quietly from the very beginning, and deserved to be allowed to finally happen.
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Old November 17 2013, 09:23 PM   #71
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Well there is a few things that I did like about Nemesis.

The ORIGINAL script. I read the original script before seeing the movie (still thinking it was a fake script at the time) . There was so much awesomness that John Logan wrote that was cut from the film.

One thing I did like, is the new paint job and lighting of the Main bridge. The Enterprise E bridge just looked AWESOME. THe new carpet, the new darker paint on the walls, the addition of blue themes monitors. All of that livened up the bridge, also made it seem somewhat bigger. Anyone agree with me on this?

(The rest of the lighting in the movie sucked. And the external battle scenes were lacking scale and lighting and detail.)
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Old November 19 2013, 02:28 AM   #72
Hober Mallow
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

BillJ wrote: View Post
It wasn't Baird or Logan or Piller who killed the movie franchise, it was Stewart and Spiner.
Nonsense. Two terrible scripts in a row is what did TNG in.

Stewart had some legitimate concerns about "Insurrection" which he stated in letters sent to Michael Piller about the script:
In the story I have been reading this weekend we are enmeshed in a context of Federation politics, fine interpretations of The Prime Directive and ancient history - as ancient as Star Trek - of conflict between two members of The Federation. In the middle of all this there is a vaguely defined, characterless, uninteresting civilization who seem to have attended too many performances of Siegfried and Roy. [..] what I have read would have hardly composed a moderately interesting episode somewhere in the middle of season five of TNG.
I agree 100%.
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Old November 19 2013, 02:32 PM   #73
BillJ
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
It wasn't Baird or Logan or Piller who killed the movie franchise, it was Stewart and Spiner.
Nonsense. Two terrible scripts in a row is what did TNG in.
Two terrible scripts that Stewart and Spiner had a hand in.
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