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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 18 2013, 01:45 AM   #31
J. Allen
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Same here. Regardless of whether or not I'm a fan, if I'm getting paid, and paid well, to make this movie, it's going to have my best effort put into it.
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Old October 22 2013, 04:55 PM   #32
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Nemesis annoyed the heck out of me.

1. Disrespect to the fans - why did no one question if B4 was Lore?
2. The Remans - what!
3. The buggy - why?
4. Riker boots Ron Perlman down a bottomless pit - on a starship!
5. Tone - it's wrong.

There’s not an original idea in this wretched film, in Star Trek VI, there was a ship that could ‘fire whilst cloaked’. Janeway rammed her ship into another one in Voyager, Data had a ‘brother’ in Datalore. Now I use the Star Wars prequels as barometers of film badness. This turgid, inspid mess of a film is almost as bad as The Phantom Menace – but not quite.

Full review here:

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/2...s-film-review/
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Old October 22 2013, 05:39 PM   #33
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

You'd think they made the film just to personally slight you or something.
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Old October 22 2013, 07:37 PM   #34
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

The great sin of NEM is that there was so much at stake and the Federation-Romulan storyline held so much potential.


TNG had essentially been building up to a Rommie film since Season 1. The Rommies were the main power/political opposition in the broader TNG saga. It was a chance for TNG to go out with a bang.

The roots of the NEM fiasco actually went back to the end of First Contact. After that film's success, TPTB should have sat down and mapped out a multi-film direction to wrap up TNG on the big screen in a big way.

Instead, we got the unmemorable INS and then tried to squeeze in a bunch of nonsense that made NEM such a incoherent and distasteful mess.
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Old October 22 2013, 07:41 PM   #35
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I really blame the director. It is obvious from his editing decisions and his comments that he did not understand or even care to understand what Star Trek is. He makes comments like "I cut the Data/Picard wine scene because it was too slow and I wanted to get to the dune buggy scene quicker". He did not understand the significance of that wonderful scene, he thought it was just a slow talking scene that was preventing the movie from getting to the "important" action scene. He approached the movie like it was just your average action flick and he wanted to pack in as many "cool" action sequences as possible.
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Old October 22 2013, 07:43 PM   #36
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I do, however, agree with those who say they'd love to see a re-edited version of NEM with the deleted scenes incorporated into the final film.


They were the best and most vital parts of the movie that actually added to the story itself and TNG's story more broadly.


Bad, bad....from the script to the director's chair to the editing room.
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Old October 22 2013, 09:38 PM   #37
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

I do feel the deleted scenes would make the film much improved. It's surprising regarding these editing decisions, as Stuart Baird is a very competent editor. As Director, he had say over what was and wasn't cut, so why the bad edits?
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Old October 22 2013, 09:39 PM   #38
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Because mind rape contributes so much more to the plot than minor things like characterization. People might not have realized Shinzon's the bad guy or something.
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Old October 23 2013, 10:09 AM   #39
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

JamesRye wrote:
Disrespect to the fans - why did no one question if B4 was Lore?
This one often gets mentioned, but to be fair there was a namedrop of Lore in the script -- but it was in one of the scenes director Stuart Baird cut from the final movie.

Romulan_spy wrote:
I really blame the director. It is obvious from his editing decisions and his comments that he did not understand or even care to understand what Star Trek is. He makes comments like "I cut the Data/Picard wine scene because it was too slow and I wanted to get to the dune buggy scene quicker". He did not understand the significance of that wonderful scene, he thought it was just a slow talking scene that was preventing the movie from getting to the "important" action scene. He approached the movie like it was just your average action flick and he wanted to pack in as many "cool"action sequences as possible.
This. Baird didn't have a clue. Contrary to certain opinions, the script does actually pull pretty close to television TNG in tone, with the exception of the dune buggy scene which was pretty much a vanity clause inserted only to please Patrick Stewart (an avid off-road enthusiast in real life). But there were a LOT of..... questionable editing choices made by the director. Baird himself even said outright recently that he hated being a part of a movie with such a rich vein of pre-history, where the characters had already been so well established before he came along. It's clear he didn't have the first idea about the appeal of TNG, and that he evidently did as much as he could to tear the heart out of that script.

That and he's bloody creepy. I watched the special features and commentary of Nemesis not so long ago, and the delight with which the director repeatedly talks about the mind-rape scenes is..... disturbing, to say the least.
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Old October 23 2013, 02:25 PM   #40
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

JamesRye wrote: View Post
2. The Remans - what!
If it were me tasked with rewriting the film I would have no problem with keeping the Remans in the film; but in my version they would be Romulans that live and work (some originally by choice of ancestors and others forced) on Remus.

They would be a subclass of 'undesirables', still used as canon fodder by the Romulan Empire during the Dominion war but they would be Romulan.

This could then have been used to explain why Nero and his mining crew looked so different, they were from Remus in a unified Romulus after the end of NEM.

JamesRye wrote: View Post
There’s not an original idea in this wretched film, in Star Trek VI, there was a ship that could ‘fire whilst cloaked’.
At least in this film they didnt sit round and tried to fire back at their unseen enemy
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Old October 23 2013, 04:58 PM   #41
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

[/QUOTE]
At least in this film they didnt sit round and tried to fire back at their unseen enemy[/QUOTE]

Space is pretty big, you cant expect to hit something that's invisible at a distant range by pure luck.

Even if a ship is only 10km away, that means it could actually occupy anywhere in 3-dimensional space within 10km. That's 10km * 10km * 10km, a very large volume indeed.



To further illustrate my point, try playing battleships with just one battleship occupying one square. There are 100 squares on a battleship board, so that is 1 in 100 times that you'd actually 'hit' the ship.

Now even if you randomly hit the ship, you dont know what vector its moving along (unless it is continuously firing and maintaining a constant speed). Without triangulation (3 points of contact) you cannot accurately track the ship.

Star Trek VI got it right. Kirk did the right thing by reversing the ship (and thus minimising the target).

Nemesis on the other hand made the space-battle look like a video game.

Sorry for the slight rant
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Old October 23 2013, 06:21 PM   #42
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Some people have mentioned the wedding, I feel it would have been nice to see the actual wedding ceremony, and cut back some on the wedding reception.

Lose Data's singing, keep Picard's best man toast where the Titan is mentioned, and the fact that Riker and Troi are leaving the Enterprise.

Insert an explaination as to exactly how Worf is there in uniform.

^(oo)^
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Old October 23 2013, 07:16 PM   #43
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Some people have mentioned the wedding, I feel it would have been nice to see the actual wedding ceremony, and cut back some on the wedding reception.

Lose Data's singing, keep Picard's best man toast where the Titan is mentioned, and the fact that Riker and Troi are leaving the Enterprise.

Insert an explaination as to exactly how Worf is there in uniform.

^(oo)^
They should've opened on Betazed, using creative camera work to get across that people there are naked for the wedding ceremony, added in that Picard was retiring and handing the keys of the Enterprise to Riker upon their return to Earth, keep "Blue Skies", don't care why Worf was in uniform, pushed the battle with the Scimitar all the way to Earth and sacrificed the Enterprise and crew while saving Earth.

Go out with a bang instead of a whimper.
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Old October 24 2013, 09:07 PM   #44
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Rainbow Dash wrote: View Post
I do feel the deleted scenes would make the film much improved. It's surprising regarding these editing decisions, as Stuart Baird is a very competent editor. As Director, he had say over what was and wasn't cut, so why the bad edits?
. He probably didn't even have final cut.

I sometimes wonder if Baird haters have ever seen any of his other work, either as director or editor.
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Old October 24 2013, 10:41 PM   #45
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Re: NEMESIS: the good, and not so bad.

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Insert an explaination as to exactly how Worf is there in uniform.
Meh, didn't need one really. By "Insurrection," the explanations were getting silly. "I was in the blah blah system and..." Obviously he returned to Starfleet and the Enterprise by the time of "Nemesis." What else does anyone need to know? I don't think anyone besides DS9 fans were wondering anyway.

Worf's presence is the least of the film's problems.
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