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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

View Poll Results: vote
I prefer the Wrath of Khan 110 72.85%
I Prefer Into Darkness 17 11.26%
I like them both the same 24 15.89%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 16 2013, 12:44 PM   #121
Nightdiamond
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

The problem is, when they used premise of the crew being promoted quickly and serving with each other for only a year, it was bound to have that reaction with at least some fans.

Everything was thrown in all at once, so it has the summer movie feel to it, with all the gimmicks.

Kirk the hero and main character dying and then being brought back (probably) didn't really surprise anyone. Scenes like that are usually intended surprise viewers.

I suspect that it was made for people who aren't as familiar with Trek or basically the summer movie goer crowd.

There's pretty much a template for making and writing those types of movies.
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Old November 16 2013, 01:13 PM   #122
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Kirk the hero and main character dying and then being brought back (probably) didn't really surprise anyone.
At the end of part one of The Best of Both World, where Picard was Borg'fied and Riker ordered the ship to fire, there was a rumor (or actual) that Patrick Steward might be leaving the show, or was in contract negotiations.

So the fans had a reasonable belief that Picard just might be killed and stay that way.

Someone who is even a casual fan of Star Trek knew that Chris Pine signed a three movie contract, there wasn't the smallest chance that nuKirk was going to stay dead. The only question was was he coming back later in Darkness, or at some point in the next movie?

Kirk's death was meaningless.

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Old November 16 2013, 03:06 PM   #123
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

T'Girl wrote: View Post

Kirk's death was meaningless.
It was an important piece of Spock's character arc in the film.
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Old November 16 2013, 03:17 PM   #124
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

BillJ wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post

Kirk's death was meaningless.
It was an important piece of Spock's character arc in the film.
What one was that? Abandoning all logic, ridiculously screams Khan, and rashly pursuing Khan by jumping from flying car to flying car in the skies of Coruscant, er I mean, San Francisco, then proceeding to get the shit kicked out of him, until Uhura saved his ass by stunning Khan, and allow Spock to finally get the upper hand, and then TOTALLY loose it and nearly pummel Khan to death with his bare hands?


No, I don't like this version of Spock, at all. Quinto is an awesome actor, and was great as Spock in Star Trek 2009, but ID totally took a bad turn for me.
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Old November 16 2013, 03:18 PM   #125
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

And for Kirk, finally giving him the kick in his complacency that he needed to learn humility.
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Old November 16 2013, 07:26 PM   #126
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

NuTrek has backed itself into a corner now, since no one can die (or at least stay dead) then there are no longer any stakes.

At least in TWOK with Spock's death it really did seem as though that was the end of him.
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Old November 17 2013, 03:42 AM   #127
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
And for Kirk, finally giving him the kick in his complacency that he needed to learn humility.
Why should Kirk be humble? He returned from the dead, and his body is now full of "super blood."

Starfleet has several dozen super-people in freezers, remember how little of Khan's blood it took to save the life of that cute young girl at the beginning of the movie?








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Old November 17 2013, 03:52 AM   #128
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Wrath of Khan over Into Darkness.
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Old November 17 2013, 05:18 AM   #129
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Rewatched both on Bluray today, and thoroughly enjoyed both. Yeoman Randi preferred Wrath of Khan, and I preferred Into Darkness. She choked up at Spock's funeral, I choked up at Kirk's death.
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Old November 17 2013, 08:45 AM   #130
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I choked up at Kirk's death.
I have to say that that never got to me, because not long before it McCoy had said about the great healing properties of Khan's blood, I found it obvious what was going to happen so his death lacked any dramatic impact for me.
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Old November 17 2013, 08:58 AM   #131
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Just watched Wrath of Khan again tonight, I hadn't watched it in years. I had forgotten about half the stuff that happened in it.

I have to say I very much prefer TWOK to STID.

I mean, STID was flashier, better effects, and all that, but I don't think it has the impact that TWOK does.

The death of a major character that wasn't fixed suddenly by the end of the movie, you had to watch the sequel to see that.
This is why that scene, in STID, had no impact at all on me. (On the other hand, since I just watched TWOK, I'm slightly teary-eyed at the moment.)

I mean, I found STID enjoyable enough to watch, but I love TWOK. Nothing compares to TWOK.

Last edited by nureintier; November 17 2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Old November 17 2013, 12:16 PM   #132
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Rewatched both on Bluray today, and thoroughly enjoyed both. Yeoman Randi preferred Wrath of Khan, and I preferred Into Darkness. She choked up at Spock's funeral, I choked up at Kirk's death.
"I'm scared Spock!"

Sorry, I had the exact opposite reaction. Abrams, et al, had FULL LICENSE to take Star Trek into new and unseen territory. But instead, totally lifts scenes from TWOK, and calls it a homage.
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Old November 18 2013, 05:18 AM   #133
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I love to see different versions of characters and new spins on classic events. Superman II, Smallville and Man of Steel all had different versions of General Zod. Sherlock, Elementary and Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows all had different Moriarty's. Space Seed/Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness have different versions of Khan. IMO they all explored new territory.
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Old November 18 2013, 12:32 PM   #134
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
Sorry, I had the exact opposite reaction. Abrams, et al, had FULL LICENSE to take Star Trek into new and unseen territory. But instead, totally lifts scenes from TWOK, and calls it a homage.
I feel the same way. Had STID been totally new then I'd have enjoyed it far more, rehashing TWOK was a poor call.
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Old November 18 2013, 12:47 PM   #135
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
Sorry, I had the exact opposite reaction. Abrams, et al, had FULL LICENSE to take Star Trek into new and unseen territory. But instead, totally lifts scenes from TWOK, and calls it a homage.
I feel the same way. Had STID been totally new then I'd have enjoyed it far more, rehashing TWOK was a poor call.
So if The Wrath of Khan had never happened, Into Darkness would've been a good movie? That really makes no sense.

Most of the audience either hadn't seen TWOK in thirty years or hadn't seen it at all. So it was new to them.
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