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View Poll Results: vote
I prefer the Wrath of Khan 110 72.85%
I Prefer Into Darkness 17 11.26%
I like them both the same 24 15.89%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 25 2013, 01:30 PM   #166
Cara007
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

The WOK.

Am sorry but STID was a just fair film. WOK maybe chessy and dated but it still is the better film.

STID has better acting.

STID has the same writers as Transformers. ENOUGH SAID.

Thee same writers uplifted me and gave me so much hope with the awesomeness of ST 09, Then they took it all away with STID.

SO YES. WOK.

Last edited by Cara007; November 25 2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:41 PM   #167
Cara007
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

BigJake wrote: View Post
The Stab wrote: View Post
Their relationship is probably the best 'change' in the new series.
I actually quite like the Spock-Uhura relationship and I rather like that it effectively makes Uhura the third point of the triumvirate originally formed by Kirk, Spock and Bones. And one thing I do like about Abramstrek is that they realized Uhura was a glorified switchboard operator and try to give her more to do.

I also think Trek, being an action-adventure format, is at its best when action is in the foreground and relationship drama is in the background, played subtly (part of why later Bermaga-era Trek started out to outstay its welcome with me was how consistently they forgot this). ST09's touch on the Uhura-Spock relationship was light, and it worked pretty well as a character beat. OTOH I had to groan in STiD when Uhura makes the bizarre decision to have it out with Spock in the midst of a commando mission to the Klingon homeworld. It looks foolish, petty and ridiculous... and the writers knew it. It's one of their many low moments in the film that has to be lampshaded by another character in dialogue, in this case Kirk impotently wondering aloud why they're doing this now.

If that's going to be what the Spock-Uhura relationship is used for, pass.

Yes exactly. this is the issue with STID. The writing of the overall film is awful. Most people are giving the blame to Linderlof. The s/u scene in the shuttle scene was a good conversation but it was put at the wrong moment. Spock screaming Khan, the reversal of spock's death by kirk's death, Harrison been khan, the disrespectful reference to christine chapel, carol stripping for no real reason and her been a worthless character. I could go on how awful the script of STID is. JJ did a beautiful job in making a good film with a mediocre script.
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Old November 25 2013, 02:59 PM   #168
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Vulcans aspire to a state where they express no emotions. As we've seen as far back as TOS, they don't all succeed. Even Tuvok, the most 'Vulcan' of continuing Vulcan characters, had a troubled past where he failed to meet the ideal.

It's fans' incorrect preconceptions that are at fault.
I'd ask why Kolinahr even needs to exist if they are all so very good at controlling their emotions?
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Old November 25 2013, 04:22 PM   #169
Jonas Grumby
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

nureintier wrote: View Post
I realize that NuSpock is not OldSpock...
Which might have been just fine, had the nuPowers That Be actually gone that route. Instead, they keep trotting out OldSpock to remind us that he is.
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Old November 25 2013, 05:51 PM   #170
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

I know this was probably just a throw out to the fans, but in the narrative, I didn't think this made much sense. When Khan reveals himself. The way he says. "My name. Is. Khaaaaan."He says it in such a way as if Kirk is supposed to know who that is.



Overall, I prefer The Wrath of Khan.

Into Darkness just didn't compare. There was just such a sense of, "I've been through this before," throughout the movie. The reuse of lines and situations -- even if they were reversed -- just didn't do it for me.
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Old November 25 2013, 07:54 PM   #171
nureintier
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Vulcans aspire to a state where they express no emotions. As we've seen as far back as TOS, they don't all succeed. Even Tuvok, the most 'Vulcan' of continuing Vulcan characters, had a troubled past where he failed to meet the ideal.
This is true, but with Nuspock, it's as though he's not even trying. Not even a little bit. It doesn't even seem like he's aspiring to any such thing. The ears are the only thing reminding us he's part Vulcan. And that would be fine, if the movies didn't keep reminding us of that other Spock. But as it is, Spock is supposed to be the alien guy on the Enterprise, and he's just very alien-seeming and that bothers me a bit, what with the beating people up, throwing tantrums, crying, having a girlfriend (sorry, but it bothers me).

I know this was probably just a throw out to the fans, but in the narrative, I didn't think this made much sense. When Khan reveals himself. The way he says. "My name. Is. Khaaaaan."He says it in such a way as if Kirk is supposed to know who that is.
Yeah, I feel like he's talking to us (the audience), not to Kirk. We're the only ones who know who Khan is (except Spock Prime). But it still seems weird to me, the way it is.

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
nureintier wrote: View Post
I realize that NuSpock is not OldSpock...
Which might have been just fine, had the nuPowers That Be actually gone that route. Instead, they keep trotting out OldSpock to remind us that he is.
This.
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Old November 26 2013, 04:41 AM   #172
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Upstream I said how I just don't see how someone can prefer STID. I just do not get it. BUT . . .

I will say this in defense of nuSpock . . . he is a vastly different person than NimoySpock. Just barely did NOT save his mom, then his whole planet of people is annihilated. He is a messed up, troubled dude. All the Vulcans heretofore including Spock were, yes, adept at not showing emoting. Everything is off the table for this guy. I give him a pass on being so emo. I FARFARFAR prefer Nimoy and oldSpock, since he is my dear old friend from birth (mine). But I understand QuintoSpock.

PineKirk is a jackass, and the writers, to be kewl and hip, have taken away from me the hero-fully-formed that was Kirk. Everything needs a psychological backstory now, instead of just giving us a hero archetype to resonate with. My loss, and like I've said before, I'm 50/50 on even going to the next one. But I get nuSpock's emo-ness. He's damaged, man.
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Old November 26 2013, 07:35 AM   #173
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Personally, I find NuSpock too damaged. Alice Eve should've played Elizabeth Dehner, onboard to conduct a full psychological review of the crew to see if they were fit for duty--would've made sense to me .
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Old November 26 2013, 10:50 AM   #174
Cara007
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Personally, I find NuSpock too damaged. Alice Eve should've played Elizabeth Dehner, onboard to conduct a full psychological review of the crew to see if they were fit for duty--would've made sense to me .
Yes, That would have been good. Remember Skyfall. Bond taking some kind of test to see if he was fit for duty because M thought he must have been traumatised by the I was nearly dead experience. Bond did fail the test but M did not give a shit. However it was still a nice touch to Bond's character. He is not as perfect as we all think.

Spock taking that kind of test would have been very beneficial to his character but I am not surprised the writers did not even think of that. the film would not have been as fast paced as they wanted it.
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Old November 26 2013, 01:20 PM   #175
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Cara007 wrote: View Post
Spock taking that kind of test would have been very beneficial to his character but I am not surprised the writers did not even think of that. the film would not have been as fast paced as they wanted it.
Gods forbid they slowed it down to do some in-depth character development and 'soul searching' when instead they can be showing explosions or women in their underwear
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Old November 26 2013, 01:44 PM   #176
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

plynch wrote: View Post
Upstream I said how I just don't see how someone can prefer STID. I just do not get it. BUT . . .
Personally, I rank Star Trek Into Darkness as the third best Trek film behind The Motion Picture and The Undiscovered Country. I also really like The Wrath of Khan but it has some jarring plot lapses and is saved by scene chewing by Shatner and Montalban.

Is Star Trek Into Darkness a perfect movie? That would be a resounding "Hell No", but when I saw it at the theater it was the most fun I had with Trek since seeing The Undiscovered Country in theaters in 1991.
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Old November 26 2013, 08:56 PM   #177
plynch
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

BillJ wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
Upstream I said how I just don't see how someone can prefer STID. I just do not get it. BUT . . .

Is Star Trek Into Darkness a perfect movie? . . . it was the most fun I had with Trek since seeing The Undiscovered Country in theaters in 1991.
"Fun" I get. Thanks. That is a criterion by which someone could judge STID as "good." You have helped me grow. LLAP
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Old November 26 2013, 08:59 PM   #178
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Cara007 wrote: View Post
Spock taking that kind of test would have been very beneficial to his character but I am not surprised the writers did not even think of that. the film would not have been as fast paced as they wanted it.
Gods forbid they slowed it down to do some in-depth character development and 'soul searching' when instead they can be showing explosions or women in their underwear
So, setting aside my opinion STID has more than enough character development, must we accept absolutely every episode/movie/iteration of Star Trek has to be some kind of "serious" character piece laden down with morose "soul searching" and "deep philosophy"?

For me, STID returned TREK to its action adventure origins in the best way, it REALLY felt TOS was back on the silver screen. It was exciting, visually enthralling and tremendous fun. The underwear scene was funny IMHO - it certainly brought a smile to my face. And Alice Eve is as hot as hell to boot.
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Old November 26 2013, 09:36 PM   #179
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
So, setting aside my opinion STID has more than enough character development, must we accept absolutely every episode/movie/iteration of Star Trek has to be some kind of "serious" character piece laden down with morose "soul searching" and "deep philosophy"?
Fuck. No.

It was that type of shit that killed the franchise. What Berman tried to pass off as "soul searching" and "deep philosophy" ended up coming across as incredibly shallow and dull even by the standards of mid/late-90's television.

I like Star Trek as action-adventure.

To quote Picard from Encounter at Farpoint: "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are."
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Old November 26 2013, 10:25 PM   #180
JarodRussell
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Re: T.W.O.K vs STID

plynch wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
Upstream I said how I just don't see how someone can prefer STID. I just do not get it. BUT . . .

Is Star Trek Into Darkness a perfect movie? . . . it was the most fun I had with Trek since seeing The Undiscovered Country in theaters in 1991.
"Fun" I get. Thanks. That is a criterion by which someone could judge STID as "good." You have helped me grow. LLAP
I have more fun watching Spaceballs. It's the better scifi spoof movie.
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