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Old October 29 2013, 06:20 PM   #211
BillJ
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
Well, I know that when I apologize I only do so to shut the people up that I disagree with. I'm never sincere and just want to exacerbate the discussion until were just hurling epithets at each other.

After all, I'm justified in saying whatever I want, right?
There are times to be truly sorry and times to say sorry just to move past something someone has taken offense too. I'm still betting Orci's apology was the latter and if I was in the same position I know that my apology would've been the latter.

I've yet to see anyone offer apologies to Orci and Company for being verbally abusive towards them.

I find it weird that fans of certain properties think it's okay to be abusive towards creators but are absolutely shocked when that abuse gets thrown back in their faces. It's like geek/nerd fandom has adopted many of the worst traits of sports fans.
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Old October 29 2013, 08:30 PM   #212
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
Well, I know that when I apologize I only do so to shut the people up that I disagree with. I'm never sincere and just want to exacerbate the discussion until were just hurling epithets at each other.

After all, I'm justified in saying whatever I want, right?
There are times to be truly sorry and times to say sorry just to move past something someone has taken offense too. I'm still betting Orci's apology was the latter and if I was in the same position I know that my apology would've been the latter.

I've yet to see anyone offer apologies to Orci and Company for being verbally abusive towards them.

I find it weird that fans of certain properties think it's okay to be abusive towards creators but are absolutely shocked when that abuse gets thrown back in their faces. It's like geek/nerd fandom has adopted many of the worst traits of sports fans.
They've always been like that and you're fooling yourself if you think it's only a recent development. The difference being back in the good old days, people had to make more effort to be nasty - now there's instant anonymity and instant ability to reply to things.

Of course, back in the good old days the people making these things would just go "pfft. Loons" to themselves and happily let the loons be loony. Now they feel the need to go on forums to read fan feedback they never take into account and get all worked up about the loons and explode at them. It really is Orci's own fault. Some people will always express themselves on these anonymous forums unpleasantly. If he wants to expose himself to that for no good reason whatsoever (seriously, why? What does he get out of it?), he really can't go off on one.
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Old October 29 2013, 08:46 PM   #213
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
If he wants to expose himself to that for no good reason whatsoever (seriously, why? What does he get out of it?), he really can't go off on one.
You keep saying this but haven't explained why? Do we want to go back to the "good old days" where very few get the opportunity to interact with various creators in an environment that is only right for the simplest of interaction?

I don't know Bob Orci, I've never conversed with him online or in the real world. But as a fan, he has every right to converse online with other fans and too call out fans who think Star Trek is some type of life and death struggle and that he is desecrating The World According to Gene.

I really don't care if Bob Orci tells me or someone else to go "fuck off". Life's too short.
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Old October 29 2013, 09:37 PM   #214
Captain Jed R.
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
You keep saying this but haven't explained why? Do we want to go back to the "good old days" where very few get the opportunity to interact with various creators in an environment that is only right for the simplest of interaction?

I don't know Bob Orci, I've never conversed with him online or in the real world. But as a fan, he has every right to converse online with other fans and too call out fans who think Star Trek is some type of life and death struggle and that he is desecrating The World According to Gene.

I really don't care if Bob Orci tells me or someone else to go "fuck off". Life's too short.
Firstly. He isn't "a fan". He's a fan who works on an official product. This makes him more than just a fan, it makes him a professional individual whose actions, whether necessarily justified by others' actions or words, still nonetheless reflect on the company he works for. We live in a world where people get sacked for bad taste jokes on their Facebook, so if that's considered unprofessional - enough to sack people - then I think saying "fuck you" to "shitty little fans", whatever his justification (which as far as I can tell is just people saying - strongly perhaps but still just saying - that they don't like his work: something he should be used to anyway), is also unprofessional. He might not need sacking but it isn't something a person actively engaged in the making of a product should do. That is, of course, just my opinion.

Secondly. What is the point of "fan interaction" on forums like that one or this one? It is quite clear to me that they don't listen to fandom, or at least that they don't listen to that part of fandom. Nor should they: their work should be informed by what they want to make, as it clearly has been. As I have repeatedly said, going on these fan forums just leaves you open to making this kind of possible PR blunder, and one day he's going to say "fuck you" to a fan, that fan is going to care (whether you do or not is irrelevant: everyone's different and some people do really dislike some of the implications behind this sort of thing) and it is going to cost him his job, or at least cause a major shitstorm. Better to avoid the possibility of this in it's entirety. It won't affect his work, it will decrease his exposure to all those "shitty little fans" he doesn't like very much (and who don't like him), and it'll save a possible PR nightmare in future.

Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.
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Old October 29 2013, 10:01 PM   #215
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

I agree Orci shouldn't have commented in such a manner and it was unprofessional. However, as sappy as this sounds, even prosperous writers like Orci have feelings and it shows he is indeed passionate about him and his colleague's creative works. I can only imagine what it would be like to even be a semi-recognized writer and have people constantly lambasting you on the Internet. But, in everyone's best interest, they should, at the very least debate with fans in a civil, respectful way. What comes out is showing the writer is overall the better person than those making crude comments and insults.

I can say there's a singer I really like who has a Facebook. I've noticed, however, he has a short tolerance level even for people who aren't insulting. To me, that's just bad form and really says a lot about the person they are and doesn't help maintain respect for their creative aspect.

Do I blame Orci? Not really. Do I think he should have conducted himself in a much more civil manner? Absolutely. If I can do it - and I'm a nobody that has had nasty stuff thrown at me on forums before - celebrities can as well.
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Old October 29 2013, 10:44 PM   #216
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

Harbinger wrote: View Post
I agree Orci shouldn't have commented in such a manner and it was unprofessional. However, as sappy as this sounds, even prosperous writers like Orci have feelings and it shows he is indeed passionate about him and his colleague's creative works. I can only imagine what it would be like to even be a semi-recognized writer and have people constantly lambasting you on the Internet. But, in everyone's best interest, they should, at the very least debate with fans in a civil, respectful way. What comes out is showing the writer is overall the better person than those making crude comments and insults.

I can say there's a singer I really like who has a Facebook. I've noticed, however, he has a short tolerance level even for people who aren't insulting. To me, that's just bad form and really says a lot about the person they are and doesn't help maintain respect for their creative aspect.

Do I blame Orci? Not really. Do I think he should have conducted himself in a much more civil manner? Absolutely. If I can do it - and I'm a nobody that has had nasty stuff thrown at me on forums before - celebrities can as well.
QTF.

Orci deserves mucho props for his passion and (in my opinion, wrongheaded) willingness to interact with the worst of fandom. Though those that purposely, rudely antagonized him should be ashamed, I still believe he should not have responded in kind. They don't know any better because they are a bunch of anonymous nobodies when he has/had the privilege of working on and making Trek!
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Old October 29 2013, 10:52 PM   #217
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.
I don't know... I'm... just a... country... bumpkin'... ans my... brain... werks... a little... ... ... ... ... slow...

These people, like Orci, they don't work in the financial sector or the defense industry and part of the fun of their jobs is being able to interact with those who consume their product. To be able to have discussions and get a pulse of those who are buying the product. But people who can't act like they've got a modicum of common-sense end up ruining it for the rest of us.

I can guarantee every actor, actress, writer and director who heard about the incident smiled. Orci had the balls to call "fans" on their bullshit.

I'm sorry. I applaud the man for taking a stand on the non-sense and feeding back to fandom a little taste of what they've been heaping on creators since the dawn of the internet age.
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Old October 29 2013, 10:53 PM   #218
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
the main intent of the article is to blame the writers (Orci) and to point out every show Dickerson could think of where the writing was better.
No it wasn't. Here are the ONLY comments in the article directed at the writers:

A lot of critical barbs were aimed at the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness about the script and plot of the film. I won’t join in that chorus, because writing a multi-billion dollar film is something I have never had to do. The pressure must be IMMENSE, and there are many hoops that you have to jump through to produce a script for such a project.
...yet Orci still blew his lid over it : /

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Old October 29 2013, 11:03 PM   #219
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Those are the "why's". And between you and me, this entire argument is getting too circular for my liking, so I'm leaving it at that. If you still don't get my point, I can't explain it better.
I don't know... I'm... just a... country... bumpkin'... ans my... brain... werks... a little... ... ... ... ... slow...

These people, like Orci, they don't work in the financial sector or the defense industry and part of the fun of their jobs is being able to interact with those who consume their product. To be able to have discussions and get a pulse of those who are buying the product. But people who can't act like they've got a modicum of common-sense end up ruining it for the rest of us.

I can guarantee every actor, actress, writer and director who heard about the incident smiled. Orci had the balls to call "fans" on their bullshit.

I'm sorry. I applaud the man for taking a stand on the non-sense and feeding back to fandom a little taste of what they've been heaping on creators since the dawn of the internet age.
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Old October 29 2013, 11:17 PM   #220
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post

Instead of rolling your eyes, maybe you should actually take a step back and look at what fandom has become over the last twenty years.

* Writers getting death threats over changes in a comic book.

* A writer who was called a 'faggot' and other unflattering names on his Facebook wall, on his fucking birthday.

* Fans who seem to get a perverse pleasure out of the misfortune of other fans:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=39

It's pretty sad how many in fandom act now. They act like they are some type of royalty and the people who make their entertainment are the collective piss boy.

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Old October 29 2013, 11:28 PM   #221
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

^^^^^^^^^
It's been years since I've seen that.

I've always wondered how many takes it took to get that scene.

On topic: I wonder if Orci has made a clean cut with fans, or if he lurks anywhere to see what he's wrought. I'd like to think he lurks, occasionally, and just snickers at what he reads.
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Old October 29 2013, 11:29 PM   #222
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post

Instead of rolling your eyes, maybe you should actually take a step back and look at what fandom has become over the last twenty years.

* Writers getting death threats over changes in a comic book.

* A writer who was called a 'faggot' and other unflattering names on his Facebook wall, on his fucking birthday.

* Fans who seem to get a perverse pleasure out of the misfortune of other fans:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=39

It's pretty sad how many in fandom act now. They act like they are some type of royalty and the people who make their entertainment are the collective piss boy.
Death threats need to be immediately reported to authorities. Bigoted fans should be removed/banned from the celebrities page. It can still be dealt with in a more civil manner than having said celebrity retaliate with comments that may make them look unprofessional. In fact, reporting threats and removing offenders is going to do far more damage to the offender than the celebrity saying "fuck you". Responding in such a manner is only going to add fuel to the fire because that's what trolls love. They're baiting people to stir the pot.

Again, I don't blame Orci for how he feels. I can understand he may have had a bad day and lashed out. It happens to the best of us and in a case such as his, I really don't look down at him for it. It's completely understandable in case. Some celebrities get very easily irked over Internet replies that aren't even the least bit insulting. That's not the case with Orci, however. Still, it's best to show some restraint. Doing so keeps Orci looking like the better man.
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Old October 29 2013, 11:30 PM   #223
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

Franklin wrote: View Post
^^^^^^^^^
It's been years since I've seen that.

I've always wondered how many takes it took to get that scene.
History of the World Part I is a classic. I love it!
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Old October 29 2013, 11:38 PM   #224
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
^^^^^^^^^
It's been years since I've seen that.

I've always wondered how many takes it took to get that scene.
History of the World Part I is a classic. I love it!
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Old October 30 2013, 06:23 AM   #225
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Re: Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

BillJ wrote: View Post
Though I'm still of the opinion that I want passionate people working on the franchise. I burned out of the "we're all very pleased" response whenever Berman turned out a shitty product.
You can be both passionate and keep your cool. They're not mutually exclusive concepts. Like said earlier, at least he was good enough to apologize for letting it get to him. Hopefully, he learned not to get into this kind of internet fight. There's nothing more boring than getting into an internet fight that only consists of "fuck yous".
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