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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old October 11 2013, 06:38 AM   #1
SignGuyHPW
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Amok Time repercussions?

Something always bothered me about Amok Time. Kirk and McCoy openly disrespect an ancient Vulcan tradition and decieve one of the most respected leaders on their world. Obviously, the Vulcans figured out that Kirk's death was a sham and McCoy had lied to them. Was there not any type of repercussions over this? I'd think that Star Fleet would be livid over the blatant disregard for the safety of fellow officers by Spock not to mention the three of them were in collusion to defraud some of the most influential Vulcans. Plus, I'd think that the Vulcans would be highly upset that their sacred traditons were mocked like this.
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Old October 11 2013, 07:05 AM   #2
Melakon
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Someone brought up this very same objection a few weeks ago as I recall.

T'PAU: Kirk? T'Pring is within her rights, but our laws and customs are not binding on thee. . .
Pretty much says it all right there. The Vulcans don't have any room to complain.
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Old October 11 2013, 07:12 AM   #3
Nerys Myk
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Not sure the Vulcans want their "dirty laundry" aired, so they aren't going press charges. As for Starfleet, T'Pau seems to wield some power in UFP political circles. Enough to keep Starfleet off Spock's back. Vulcans aren't going to get upset, it would ruin their carefully constructed persona.
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Old October 11 2013, 07:19 AM   #4
SignGuyHPW
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Someone brought up this very same objection a few weeks ago as I recall.

T'PAU: Kirk? T'Pring is within her rights, but our laws and customs are not binding on thee. . .
Pretty much says it all right there. The Vulcans don't have any room to complain.
I *think* that she was meaning that the laws and customs weren't binding before he accepted the challenge. Once he accepted then he was bound to follow them. Otherwise, he would've been able to go with his original plan and let Spock beat him up a bit and then just quit.
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Old October 11 2013, 07:26 AM   #5
A beaker full of death
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

I think the scandal of T'Pring choosing the combat far outweighed any issues the Vulcans might have had with what Kirk and McCoy did. After all, the Vulcans rather expect that sort of thing from humans.
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Old October 11 2013, 01:12 PM   #6
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Oh, I think they would have found McCoy's solution to save the Captain "most logical" and grudgingly let it go.
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Old October 11 2013, 01:24 PM   #7
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

What happens on Vulcan, stays on Vulcan.
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Old October 11 2013, 03:41 PM   #8
Nerys Myk
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Forbin wrote: View Post
Oh, I think they would have found McCoy's solution to save the Captain "most logical" and grudgingly let it go.
Yeah, they were willing to give T'Pring's shenanigans a pass.
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Old October 11 2013, 03:55 PM   #9
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Even if Spock had killed Kirk I don't know if they could legally charge Spock.
Kirk shouldn't have accepted a challenge-to-the-death.
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Old October 11 2013, 04:52 PM   #10
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Kirk shouldn't have accepted a challenge-to-the-death.
Kirk wasn't even told it was a fight to death until after he accepted. So the Vulcans, including T'Pau, actually tricked him into accepting.
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Old October 11 2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Melakon wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Kirk shouldn't have accepted a challenge-to-the-death.
Kirk wasn't even told it was a fight to death until after he accepted. So the Vulcans, including T'Pau, actually tricked him into accepting.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Presumably a Starship Captain, a representative of the Federation should know this.

Look at it from T'Pau's point of view. She must have wondered why Kirk would have accepted the challenge. Surely he didn't fancy T'Pring. So did he want to die or just kill Spock or maybe show off in front of T'Pau?
Maybe she just wanted to teach Kirk some sort of lesson by refusing Spock's request to deny Kirk''s acceptance of challenge.

So what is the law anyway?
Vulcan elder on Vulcan requires Spock and Kirk to fight to the death. She gives Kirk the option of backing out. Spock requests that Kirk backs out. Kirk again refuses. So Spock has to agree to obey the law of his home planet.
Legally is Spock guilty?
I think in TNG Picard says to someone the law of Federation overrides local law but that was on a Starship. I don't know what happens if a Starfleet officer is on a Federation planet. Does local law override Federation law? In 'Wolf in the Fold' it seemed to but that wasn't a Federation planet.

I know its not that simple, Kirk didn't know that it was a fight to the death and Spock couldn't control himself.
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Old October 11 2013, 05:53 PM   #12
Dale Sams
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

Fortunatly at that time (See The Menagerie, and Kirk's PD violations) Starfleet and Vulcan apparently are headed by compassionate "Ok ok...we get it" people.

Which is why the last two Star Trek movies are funny in averting that trope in regards to Kirk.
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Old October 11 2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Look at it from T'Pau's point of view. She must have wondered why Kirk would have accepted the challenge. Surely he didn't fancy T'Pring.
Because Kirk didn't want to dishonor Vulcan customs by turning down a challenge? Besides, if he declined, T'Pring would simply have chosen someone else.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:30 PM   #14
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Presumably a Starship Captain, a representative of the Federation should know this.
Heck, even if nobody mentions it to Starship Captains in their training they really ought to figure it out quick enough: alien ritual combats are always to the death. It must come as a shock when they find one that's just five rounds of three minutes boxing each and if either person bleeds that ends the match.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:48 PM   #15
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Re: Amok Time repercussions?

The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Presumably a Starship Captain, a representative of the Federation should know this.
So he's suppose to know the local laws and customs of hundreds of Federation worlds? I think that is a little much to expect of anyone.
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