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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old October 12 2013, 10:57 AM   #61
J. Allen
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I buy there being a "gay gene." By the very nature of homosexuality, wouldn't it have bred itself out by now if there was?
No. That's not how it works.

I still think it comes down to choice and that's all it is. I'm pretty sure there isn't a gene that makes me find brunettes more attractive than blondes. Let people live their lives as they choose. Trying to explain personal lifestyle choices with science is... silly.
I disagree that it's a choice. Oh, for me, I can choose between men and women, but that's because I'm pansexual, and my heart beats for whomever I find attractive. That isn't true for someone who is homosexual or heterosexual. Still, if you feel that you, personally, can choose between men and women, and find both attractive, then you may be bisexual.
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Old October 12 2013, 11:26 AM   #62
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I buy there being a "gay gene." By the very nature of homosexuality, wouldn't it have bred itself out by now if there was?
No. Here, educate yourself.

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
I still think it comes down to choice and that's all it is. I'm pretty sure there isn't a gene that makes me find brunettes more attractive than blondes. Let people live their lives as they choose. Trying to explain personal lifestyle choices with science is... silly.
Thankfully, your opinions have no impact on reality.
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Old October 12 2013, 11:32 AM   #63
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I saw a person today I thought was very attractive and about two beats later I realized I had no idea whether they were male or female. If they were female they were kind of traditional butch but if they were male they had a real femme vibe going on. And both those things options were working really well for them. AND (the reason I'm posting this) in my head I could hear/see J.Allen saying/typing the word "pansexual" I rarely come across that term, even in tumblr land.
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Old October 12 2013, 11:41 AM   #64
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

teacock wrote: View Post
I saw a person today I thought was very attractive and about two beats later I realized I had no idea whether they were male or female. If they were female they were kind of traditional butch but if they were male they had a real femme vibe going on. And both those things options were working really well for them. AND (the reason I'm posting this) in my head I could hear/see J.Allen saying/typing the word "pansexual" I rarely come across that term, even in tumblr land.
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Old October 12 2013, 11:44 AM   #65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I apologize. I by no means meant that remark seriously at all. I do not believe homosexuality is a disease. I was making a flippant remark about how there are almost NEVER any gay role models on Star Trek. I believe that there definitely SHOULD be a few gay role models here and there with Star Trek. I was very disappointed that the show Enterprise didn't come thru and have a great gay role model. Malcolm would have been perfect. But apparently the show decided to go another way. I personally, would be thrilled if they added a gay character to the Star Trek Saga. Heck! The guy who plays Spock in the new series is actually gay. I'm glad that Star Trek hired a gay actor...but would have been happier if they had just added a new character who happened to be gay. The "cure" thing was absolutely and completely sarcastic. I thought that was obvious. Apparently I was wrong. And I apologize.

Last edited by SpaceLover65; October 12 2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Wanted to add something
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Old October 12 2013, 11:50 AM   #66
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I will be happy when NuSpock and Pine's Kirk finally get it on, you know with canon and all that.
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Old October 12 2013, 11:58 AM   #67
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

LOL! I recall years ago a magazine that had an article about couples who never got together but should have. I recall that Don and Judy were on that list from Lost In Space. However, Kirk and Spock were also on that list. That was rather amusing.
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Old October 12 2013, 12:04 PM   #68
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SO HAPPY.
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Old October 12 2013, 12:18 PM   #69
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Getting back to the Deltons. I read a story years ago called Dwellers of the Crucible. It's been ages since I've read it. But according to that story, the Deltons are a VERY highly sexual race. I have no idea about the males of that race because the author didn't go into that subject. However, the females do produce a highly potent form of sexual pheromones. Why? I have no idea. However, in the story three Deltons, a human female, and a Vulcan female were abducted by Klingons. Even though they were imprisoned, the three Deltons stayed huddled together...and often having group sex despite their circumstances. I think at one point, the human female joined them, but never the Vulcan female. All three Deltons eventually ended up dying. According to this version, most Deltons MUST be around other Deltons to survive. Kind of a co-dependency thing. I recall that the Klingons removed the older male Delton, and he died soon afterwards. Later the Klingons removed the female, and she died minutes after removing her from the other male Delton. Chrysander (the last Delton) died not long after the female was removed. The human female tried to take the place of the other two Deltons, and constantly clung to him and hugged him. However Chrynsander died not long after the female Delton was removed. Apparently some can survive without others of their species, like in the original motion picture. However, this must not be the norm for the majority of Deltons. Although the females do produce a powerful pheromone, I think Deltons think that sex is sex...and they'd have no problems with homosexuality or bisexuality. I don't know, but by the tone of that book, it appeared to hint that all Deltons seem to be bisexual. Female Deltons pheromones DO work on men. Whether the males be human or otherwise. And it's NOT just sex. Delton females can use these pheromones to alter moods and not necessarily sex. They also control their men by these pheromones. Could a female Delton alter the moods of a human gay male. I'm sure that she could. However, I don't know for certain if she could cause a gay male to feel amorous towards her. I guess it would depend on the human male...and if he had some type of attraction towards females that he hasn't come to realize. But the ultimate answer is: I just don't know.
Here's something also that the book claimed. The human female in that story eventually has a sexual affair with one of her Klingon captors. And according to the story, Klingon males have three testicles. Just thought that would be something interesting to mention.
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Old October 12 2013, 12:41 PM   #70
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Okay. I found the online 'gay' Star Trek episode. I think it's a web-series or something like that. I don't think it's ever aired on tv. It's called Star Trek Phase 2: "Blood and Fire." This is only the first part of the episode. If you want to watch the entire thing, then you'll just have to find the other parts and watch them in order. But this first part has guy-on-guy kissing. I hope all of you like it. I may just watch it again because I've basically forgotten the entire premise.
LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtifyhPScCw
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Old October 12 2013, 12:56 PM   #71
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
They interviewed Scott Bakula about it...and he said he was against having a gay man aboard the Enterprise... however he would be open to have a lesbian character aboard. I think that Bakula was only concerned for the health of the series, and was afraid that a gay man aboard just might cause a few viewers to stop watching the series. But I personally can't confirm this.
I think it would be near impossible statistically for there to actually have been fewer viewers than Enterprise had.

Seriously, I call bullshit. I've been following the franchise for near forty-years and have never heard of such an interview. Care to post proof?
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Old October 12 2013, 01:17 PM   #72
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I'm not sure where I read that from...I think it might have been TV Guide. But it was many years ago when "Enterprise" first began. That's how I heard the rumor about Malcolm potentially being the first gay man on Star Trek. But the article said that it was only a rumor. They spoke with Scott Bakula (I'm positive...I remember reading this). And he did say he didn't think the show was ready for a gay man...but he could see having a lesbian character. This I'm positive...I thought it strange and it etched into my memory because I thought it was rather stupid. AND...I kept waiting for Malcolm to come out of the closet...but he NEVER did. I'm assuming that Bakula has drastically changed his tune since then because he's supposed to be staring in a gay themed show. But I know that I DID read it from some where. I wouldn't make up something like that.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:22 PM   #73
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Reading through these posts that try to that try to fit together the biochemistry of sexuality, the supposed openly sexual culture of the Deltans and the questions of sexual identity just prove to me once more that sometimes Gene Roddenberry had incredibly convoluted ideas. Deltans are highly sexual, which drives humans crazy, BUT they give these oaths of celibacy that solve the whole problem? Oh, please! And Deltan women produce strong pheromones (or some other chemical) that that make them irresistible? If that were the case, no oath would make it possible for humans to work with them. I find the concept of Deltans--hypersexual, super-attractive, but unattainable--to be adolescent at best. It makes me wonder if in the middle of an argument with Majel, Gene ever claimed that his dalliances were a sign of his sexual maturity.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:33 PM   #74
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Hmm... I kinda get where you're coming from. However you just have to keep in mind that this is fiction...and it can get very convoluted and confusing. I try not to dwell on some aspects too desperately because it is fiction....and MANY writers have put in their two-cents. So, Star Trek is based on a lot of different views and assumptions. In the Star Trek world, do Delton women have this crazy pheromone gift? Yes. Can they take an oath of celibacy? Apparently some can. Does this all make sense? Not really. Like you said, it would be practically impossible. But we're talking about a series where a main character (Spock) dies, then miraculously comes back to life (Genesis Project) then has his katra (or life essence) placed back inside his body. I basically just accept many of the Star Trek concepts because I really adore the series and it's fun to read and watch on tv.. or the movies. I just accept it for what it is...fiction. Very enjoyable fiction...but still fiction.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:51 PM   #75
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

^Yes, I agree. I think the concept was sustainable for the one film. However, it might have become more trying if learning to work with Ilia had to be a recurring conflict of the plot. Perhaps a clever writer may have found a way to make Ilia's character arc about being a woman in the work place, where she is constantly sexualized in spite of her wishes. As it stands, it suggests an intergender dynamic with constant sexual tension, in which men are caught between their natural sexual desires and the social need to deny their instincts. What would have happened if a human male crossed the line with a Deltan woman? Would he have been blamed for his actions, as he should? How would we have felt thirty years later about such an episode of Second Phase if it excused the human male of being "under the influence?"
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