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Old October 14 2013, 06:54 AM   #136
Rainbow Dash
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

teacock wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
One of Soren's lines which you quoted directly referred to "an era where [they] all had gender". How would you explain THAT line? A change in the physiology of the species?
It's explained:

SOREN
The idea of gender... it's offensive to my people. You see, long ago we had two sexes, as you do. But we evolved... into a higher form.
(beat)
I don't mean to sound insulting... but on my planet we've been taught that gender is...
(struggling for the least offensive word)
...primitive.
Yep. When I saw that episode, I took it immediately that the J'naii had no gender; that "male" and "female" did not exist as a hard fact as it does for us.

Also as far as gay male Klingons go KRAD had a Klingon male captain with a male underling he regularly took to bed in the novels. There was lots of smirking on the bridge iirc. It was done very well, the Captain being seen as a man of appetites.
This interests me. Go on...
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Old October 14 2013, 06:54 AM   #137
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
So...let' say that in the future...most people are supposed to be a bit more tolerable to same-sex experimentation.
It's been shown that future humans don't just tolerate others who are different but embrace them as equals in all things.
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Old October 14 2013, 07:00 AM   #138
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
the most pornographic Trek has ever been!
So, bit of heavy breathing in the dark?
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Old October 14 2013, 07:08 AM   #139
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Rainbow Dash wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
Also as far as gay male Klingons go KRAD had a Klingon male captain with a male underling he regularly took to bed in the novels. There was lots of smirking on the bridge iirc. It was done very well, the Captain being seen as a man of appetites.
This interests me. Go on...
Can't recall details.. but I think he was married to a female and this was a shipboard affair. I just remember being impressed by how it was handled. It was also pretty hot.

IKS Gorkon series (good trilogy all round).
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Old October 14 2013, 07:15 AM   #140
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Hmm... I don't know. ^ I think I'd freak out a little if Kirk and Spock started snogging on the Enterprise. I'm ready for a gay character for Star Trek. I like the idea of Kirk being double the slut and going both ways. I always thought that William Shatner portrayed Kirk as possibly being interested in both sexes. It was just this look that he'd have. I remember Mad Magazine did a parody of Star Trek. And Kirk mutated into a women. And the funny thing...it was absolutely believable. The female version of Kirk was hard as nails...but still had the time to do "her" hair, find a flattering skirt...and still get the job done. William Shatner was a great actor....he could have done a wonderful job in playing a bi Jim Kirk.
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Old October 14 2013, 07:37 AM   #141
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

teacock wrote: View Post
Rainbow Dash wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
This interests me. Go on...
Can't recall details.. but I think he was married to a female and this was a shipboard affair. I just remember being impressed by how it was handled. It was also pretty hot.

IKS Gorkon series (good trilogy all round).
I will be checking this out.

Maybe twice.

Thank you.

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
Hmm... I don't know. ^ I think I'd freak out a little if Kirk and Spock started snogging on the Enterprise. I'm ready for a gay character for Star Trek. I like the idea of Kirk being double the slut and going both ways. I always thought that William Shatner portrayed Kirk as possibly being interested in both sexes. It was just this look that he'd have. I remember Mad Magazine did a parody of Star Trek. And Kirk mutated into a women. And the funny thing...it was absolutely believable. The female version of Kirk was hard as nails...but still had the time to do "her" hair, find a flattering skirt...and still get the job done. William Shatner was a great actor....he could have done a wonderful job in playing a bi Jim Kirk.
I'd be more than fine with it, as I honestly believe Pine and Quinto have real sexual chemistry onscreen.

Also, I could definitely believe in a bisexual Kirk.
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Old October 14 2013, 08:11 AM   #142
SpaceLover65
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

I also remember an episode of the original Star Trek. In it, a woman uses some alien device to swap bodies with Jim Kirk. This was an amazing episode way ahead of its time. In it, Shatner portrayed the possessed Jim as still loving the man the woman was in love with (did that make sense?) And the man still loved the woman even though she was now in Kirk's body. I remember Kirk (still possessed by the woman) putting his arm around that guy...and gently caressing him. This was a HUGE achievement for the '60's. Shatner did such a great job in that episode...I thought...Gee...maybe Kirk is into guys too.
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Old October 14 2013, 08:19 AM   #143
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
I also remember an episode of the original Star Trek. In it, a woman uses some alien device to swap bodies with Jim Kirk. This was an amazing episode way ahead of its time. In it, Shatner portrayed the possessed Jim as still loving the man the woman was in love with (did that make sense?) And the man still loved the woman even though she was now in Kirk's body. I remember Kirk (still possessed by the woman) putting his arm around that guy...and gently caressing him. This was a HUGE achievement for the '60's. Shatner did such a great job in that episode...I thought...Gee...maybe Kirk is into guys too.
Agreed. I think William Shatner did an excellent job as the mentally unbalanced Janice Lester, and Sandra Smith did an excellent job as the deposed James Kirk. I like that episode, overall.
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Old October 14 2013, 08:44 AM   #144
Tiberius
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
One of Soren's lines which you quoted directly referred to "an era where [they] all had gender". How would you explain THAT line? A change in the physiology of the species?
There are a few species of lizard today that are all female, and the reproduce asexually. Since they went from two genders to one gender, it's perfectly plausible that the J'Naii could do the same. A little different since the J'naii need two people to create offspring and the lizards don't, but it shows how it could happen.

And as Teacake explained, the episode states that they evolved to become the single gendered species we see in the episode.
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Old October 14 2013, 12:25 PM   #145
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Tiberius wrote: View Post
No they didn't. Soren may have been emotionally and psychologically a female, but she didn't have a vagina. There are no J'naii with vaginas, none with penises.
Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

As strange as it might seem to say, apparently Tiberius you don't know what the word "gender" means.


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Old October 14 2013, 12:49 PM   #146
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Rainbow Dash wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
One of Soren's lines which you quoted directly referred to "an era where [they] all had gender". How would you explain THAT line? A change in the physiology of the species?
It's explained:

SOREN
The idea of gender... it's offensive to my people. You see, long ago we had two sexes, as you do. But we evolved... into a higher form.
(beat)
I don't mean to sound insulting... but on my planet we've been taught that gender is...
(struggling for the least offensive word)
...primitive.
Yep. When I saw that episode, I took it immediately that the J'naii had no gender; that "male" and "female" did not exist as a hard fact as it does for us.
Given that both Jnaii "inseminate a fibrous husk," their genitalia are probably more like human male genitalia in spite of any differences between (suppressed) genders. Indeed, just because Soren identified as female does not mean she has the physiology of a woman.
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Old October 14 2013, 03:33 PM   #147
Elvira
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Tiberius wrote: View Post
You are saying that there might still be two different types of genitals among the J'naii? If that were the case, and one of each was required to create a child, then that would by definition, be two different genders!
Wait, wait wait. The society did not have genders, at no point in the episode is it stated that the J'nail do not possess genitailia.

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Old October 14 2013, 08:04 PM   #148
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

SpaceLover65 wrote: View Post
I also remember an episode of the original Star Trek. In it, a woman uses some alien device to swap bodies with Jim Kirk.
"Turnabout Intruder", final episode of the series.

During shooting, its nickname was "Captain Kirk, Space Queen".
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Old October 15 2013, 02:38 AM   #149
Tiberius
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
No they didn't. Soren may have been emotionally and psychologically a female, but she didn't have a vagina. There are no J'naii with vaginas, none with penises.
Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

As strange as it might seem to say, apparently Tiberius you don't know what the word "gender" means.


Huh?

The article states, "Gender is the range of physical, mental and behavioral characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity."

I clearly said that while Soren may have been emotionally and psychologically a female, she didn't have the physical requirements for it.

In what way is that wrong? Are you suggesting that, despite what they said in the episode, the J'naii actually do have penises and vaginas? What are you trying to say?
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Old October 15 2013, 02:39 AM   #150
Tiberius
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Re: Homosexuals and Deltans

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
You are saying that there might still be two different types of genitals among the J'naii? If that were the case, and one of each was required to create a child, then that would by definition, be two different genders!
Wait, wait wait. The society did not have genders, at no point in the episode is it stated that the J'nail do not possess genitailia.

Okay, now what are you going on about? Where did I say that the J'naii did not have genitals? I have been saying that they all have the SAME genitals! There are no two different types, like we have with male and female.

Are you reading what I'm actually writing, or just creating strawmen?
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