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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 14 2013, 09:22 AM   #256
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Jeyl wrote: View Post
I think there was a website that had a post here on Trekbbs that declared they had some footage of the memory wall scene, but after months and months of delay, they basically disappeared.
You mean alchemist from StarTrekHistory.com (which was in this thread). After the These Are the Voyages book fiasco I think we can forget about those guys releasing material they've restored for fear that someone will once again just use it without asking.
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Old November 15 2013, 02:33 AM   #257
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

New questions…yay!

1. Why did they replace Xon with Commander Sonak as the person that could never replace Spock and thus would not get to be science officer? Why change the character's name? For that matter, why not let David Gutreaux keep the role since both Sonak and Cmdr Branch die in the film? Were they possibly saving the character for future use?

2. Does anyone else think that Kirk's space walk was kind of…odd to say the least? What exactly was he hoping to do out there? He wasn't even wearing a thruster suit.

3. One wonders if the crew got any sleep while in the cloud given that it took more than a day for them and the cloud to reach Earth.
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Old November 15 2013, 03:02 AM   #258
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
New questions…yay!

1. Why did they replace Xon with Commander Sonak as the person that could never replace Spock and thus would not get to be science officer? Why change the character's name? For that matter, why not let David Gutreaux keep the role since both Sonak and Cmdr Branch die in the film? Were they possibly saving the character for future use?
As I recall from some interview with David Gautreaux, who was cast as Xon, Roddenberry assured him they'd have a place for Xon in the movie after the brought Spock back, but he didn't want to "Carry Spock's luggage" or words to that effect. How true this is I can't say.
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Old November 15 2013, 03:20 AM   #259
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
3. One wonders if the crew got any sleep while in the cloud given that it took more than a day for them and the cloud to reach Earth.
Based on Kirk's log entries, we can infer that several hours elapsed between various scenes, so it's likely the crew rested during those times. OTOH, it's not unheard of for people in certain professions to remain awake for significant time stretches. I've been up for more than thirty hours without sleep several times for my job. The Enterprise was in the midst of an emergency mission with the highest of stakes, so I can believe that most of the senior staff didn't sleep during the mission.

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Old November 15 2013, 04:10 AM   #260
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
I've been watching the original cut of TMP recently and I've come to appreciate it more than I did when I was younger. That said, there are some oddities that I do have questions about...

3) Where was Starfleet in this movie? The "only starship in range" is an old trope, but it seems problematic in the context of this film. Lets remember that Starfleet first becomes aware of V'Ger after monitoring the incident in Klingon space. That means that V'ger traveled between the Klingon Empire and Federation. Yet it never seems to encounter any Federation ships. Are we to assume that there are NO Starfleet vessels ANYWHERE between Klingon space and Earth? Indeed one wonders why the Klingons didn't try to follow and attack.

4) Why does V'ger fire torpodes on both the Klingons and the Enterprise, but seems to simply "eat" or disolve Epsilon IX?

5) Given all of the rereleases of older material with new edits, do we know what is considered "canon" about these movies? For instance...was V'ger's cloud REALLY 82 AUs or was it a mere 3 (which is still enormous...Earth should have been engulfed in the cloud long before V'ger arrived in orbit).
I'll give my take on a few of these:

3) Stupid. A plot contrivance. Even though space is vast, you'd think Starfleet ships would be deployed in a pattern that maximized coverage of Federation space. At warp speeds, even light years can be covered in hours with the right spacing.

4) I think the evidence is that the Klingons are within V'Ger's visual memory bank representation as well as Epsilon IX. So the same thing happened.

5) I think Wise wanted the DE to be the official version, despite that the original version was released on Bluray. I never watch the original version and consider the new one "canon".
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Old November 15 2013, 05:35 AM   #261
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

It's easy: The universe in which V'ger measures "82 AUs in diameter" is the same universe in which Kirk's statement in "Court Martial" that the heartbeats on the Enterprise are amplified "on the order of one to the fourth power" is somehow meaningful.
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Old November 15 2013, 05:49 AM   #262
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

gottacook wrote: View Post
It's easy: The universe in which V'ger measures "82 AUs in diameter" is the same universe in which Kirk's statement in "Court Martial" that the heartbeats on the Enterprise are amplified "on the order of one to the fourth power" is somehow meaningful.
Is that the same universe as the DC comic where a captain ordered his ship to reverse course by making a 360-degree turn?
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Old November 15 2013, 06:53 AM   #263
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
For that matter, why not let David Gutreaux keep the role since both Sonak and Cmdr Branch die in the film? Were they possibly saving the character for future use?
Gautreaux had done a huge amount of research to create Xon, a character that would be seen across at least 13 episodes of a "Phase II" series. He had a contract for an extended run. There was every possibility that, after TMP's debut, work would resume on a new series again, perhaps without Nimoy (again). All the bridge extras and bit performers were anticipating an ongoing series. Sonak was deliberately created as a disposable character for the movie.

BTW, Xon is listed as having an office in signage outside the Bridge Simulator in ST II. The plaque was sold of in the "It's a Wrap!" auctions of props and costumes.
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Old November 15 2013, 09:08 AM   #264
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Wow, I see the Memory Wall still generates a lot of interest!

I just wanted to add that, after I put on my Picture Collction page, I contacted Alchemist to learn about the retrieved footage and he confirmed that they still have it (it's 2 and half minutes) but they are not going to release it anytime soon, mainly because of the incident with "These Are The Voyages".

About the existence of the footage (which was absolutely shot, in the trench set, in the memory wall set and on blu screen), when they were making the DE, they said that they had access to all the footage available for The Motion Picture. Honestly I think Paramount simply does not have anything else beyond what was included in the extras of the two discs set. If they had it, why not to add it to the extras? It wouldn't make any sense to include five tests footage and the deleted scene and to withhold the rest. They simply don't have it. This does not mean it doesn't exist or it's destroyed (which might very well be), it could be lost somewhere (maybe even incorrectly archived/labeled in Paramount archives, we know such things happen). Also I don't think Roddenberry sold any of it, as we have seen that sold frames from Roddenberry's company are now re-emerging thanks to Internet and no one (at least that I know of) has ever come out with Memory Wall frames.

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Last edited by Maab; November 15 2013 at 11:05 AM.
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Old November 15 2013, 10:44 AM   #265
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Maab wrote: View Post
Wow, I see the Memory Wall still generates a lot of interest!
When I find where I carefully filed my b/w proofsheets, I'll rescan them for you at higher resolution.
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Old November 15 2013, 10:55 AM   #266
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

That would be great! Thanks!
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Old November 15 2013, 11:25 AM   #267
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Until I read the Cinefantastique review, of what they called "ST:TMP 1.5", accompanied by a little b/w pic of the unfinished matte, it was the first I'd heard of it. Many viewers had not noticed the sequence showed the rafters of the studio's soundstage during that first ABC screening. If you're focussed on Shatner, you don't necessarily notice his surroundings.
I just can't excuse the inclusion of an incomplete setpiece, showing the rafters and scaffolding holding it up. It's not done. That "they" got away with using this footage is neither here, nor there, it should've never seen the light of day. Certainly not without some minimal effort to mask, or crop out, the offending imperfection of the scene. Unfortunately, the networks seem to have been swayed by the negative reviews and quite simply did not care, at that point. For a TV broadcast, that's one thing, I suppose. But that this print made its way into the Home Entertainment market ... that staggers me ...
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Old November 15 2013, 11:36 AM   #268
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Maab wrote: View Post
Wow, I see the Memory Wall still generates a lot of interest! Picture Collction page
Dear Sir, this is the most exhausting and passionate reconstruction attempt / compilation of a deleted scene and all its materials I've ever seen in my life! Kudos!

Just one question continues to bug me: They created this early version of the EVA spacesuit and knowing Paramount's weakness to recycle existing props endlessly, I can't help but wonder why we never saw this EVA spacesuit used again somewhere.

Bob
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Old November 15 2013, 11:50 AM   #269
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Christopher wrote: View Post
Is that the same universe as the DC comic where a captain ordered his ship to reverse course by making a 360-degree turn?
Maybe they were using the double-coordinate system...180 on one axis, 180 on the other...reverse course and take us upside-down!
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Old November 15 2013, 12:08 PM   #270
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Dear Sir, this is the most exhausting and passionate reconstruction attempt / compilation of a deleted scene and all its materials I've ever seen in my life! Kudos!
Bob
Thanks

By the way recently I was able to get one of the magazine where many of the pictures coming from forgottentrek site were taken (thank God for ebay), and I'm re-scanning everything for better resolution.



I also found a couple of new pictures (well, same pictures from different angles), so I hope to do an update soon.

Best,
Maab
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