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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 13 2013, 01:55 AM   #241
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

^^^That can't be right because there are only tests on the DE, and there are tons of photos of Shatner an Nimoy in the various trench and memory wall sets.
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Old November 13 2013, 02:16 AM   #242
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Three possible explanations:

1: There wasn't enough money/resources/interest on the DE project to pull out the raw dailies of the Memory Wall sequence and try to put it together into a finished scene. That's all you would've had to work with, after all - no special effects, no sound fx/music/ADR, not even color correction.
2: Abel & Associates had the Memory Wall sequence when they were fired from TMP, and either they or Paramount destroyed the footage when the "Spock Walk" was decided on instead.
3: Gene Roddenberry chopped up and sold piecemeal all surviving prints of the Memory Wall sequence to get a little bonus money on the side from TMP. (Somebody here had part of that chopped-up footage and was restoring it, though I've heard nothing of it since.)

Whatever it was, the more accurate statement would be "very little surviving footage."
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Old November 13 2013, 02:51 AM   #243
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

I've seen stills of the Memory Wall and I did NOT care for it, whatsoever. I truly hope that whole sequence disappeared. And I certainly would not put it past GR to try to make a few bucks off the surviving footage, some way. It's always interesting to me, to find out later what "might have been," and ended up in the movie that somebody in charge wanted to have in there. In this case, the Memory Wall looks and seems very odd. Spock's fly by through V'ger always kind of bugged me, when he saw V'ger's "home planet" and knew what it was, right away. He even knew what the inhabitants were like and ... and everything! And all from what appears to be thousands of miles away from it all. But whatever. I forgive it, because anything that showcases the art of Syd Mead and his ilk is worth sticking around for. I just chalk it up to Spock's telekenetic connection with V'ger, itself.
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Old November 13 2013, 03:07 AM   #244
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

A sequence as complicated as the Memory Wall, with all the preparation needed for the wire work and such, would've probably taken a fair number of days to film, so just because there are photos from the sequence, that doesn't mean the entire thing was filmed. My impression is that they began filming it but were unsatisfied with the results and thus abandoned it.
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Old November 13 2013, 03:12 AM   #245
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

There are a number of photos from the unfinished sequence which suggest much more than a partial shoot. I'm pretty confident that the live action shoot for it was completed and only then abandoned.

Does the Making of TMP book -- flawed as it is -- weigh in on this?
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Old November 13 2013, 03:29 AM   #246
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

I remember an interview with Douglas Trumbull where he remarked he watched the rough cut of the Memory Wall sequence and told Bob Wise that it was totally unusable. I'm pretty sure he wasn't hired for the film until some time around when they finished the rough cut of the film in February or March '79. So, it sounds to me as if it was actually finished, but the extensive effects work needed made it impractical to finish by the December release date. Had they pushed it back to summer 1980, I think it could've been done.
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Old November 13 2013, 05:10 AM   #247
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Hmm, I guess I misinterpreted, then.
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Old November 13 2013, 05:32 AM   #248
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Ok, admittedly I am way, way late to this particular party, but I've wondered for years just what is up with this 'memory wall' stuff.

What was this scene supposed to accomplish? Why is it referred to as the 'memory wall' in the first place? The most I've gotten out of stills I've seen is Kirk and Spock just floating around this weird place, and of Kirk being covered with crystals, not too unlike Raquel Welch in Fantastic Voyage.

Is there a purposeful narrative to it? No one ever seems to discuss that aspect!
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Old November 13 2013, 06:00 AM   #249
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

The Memory Wall sequence basically covered the same expositional ground as the Spock Walk/Ilia-crystal meld sequence, but Kirk and Spock were both on the spacewalk together and the setting was very different. You can read the script and see images from the sequence here:

http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/il...wall-sequence/

Once it was abandoned, the Spock Walk scene was assembled to deliver the same information, just in monologue in Spock's log entry rather than through dialogue between Kirk and Spock.

The Marvel Comics adaptation of TMP features a version that's mostly based on the 2-man Memory Wall version, but ends with the giant Ilia image and Spock melding with the crystal as in the Spock Walk version.
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Old November 13 2013, 06:17 AM   #250
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Trumbull said it would blow the entire effects budget to try to salvage the spacewalk.
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Old November 13 2013, 06:17 AM   #251
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

1) Thank you, Christopher, that is a very helpful and informative link!

2) Curse you, Christopher, for reminding me of Marvel's Star Trek series from the period!

(Seriously, I know that licensing restrictions had a lot to do with that.)

Last edited by LMFAOschwarz; November 13 2013 at 07:29 AM.
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Old November 13 2013, 01:10 PM   #252
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Christopher wrote: View Post
I guess the reason I never had a problem with Decker -- or many other things from the film -- is that I read the novelization well before I actually saw the movie, so I had all the background fleshed out for me in advance.
Ditto!
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Old November 13 2013, 02:00 PM   #253
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Harvey wrote: View Post
There are a number of photos from the unfinished sequence which suggest much more than a partial shoot. I'm pretty confident that the live action shoot for it was completed and only then abandoned.

TMP contact proofsheet 1 by Therin of Andor, on Flickr


TMP contact proofsheet 2 by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
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Old November 13 2013, 02:07 PM   #254
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

I think there was a website that had a post here on Trekbbs that declared they had some footage of the memory wall scene, but after months and months of delay, they basically disappeared.
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Old November 13 2013, 02:27 PM   #255
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Would it have killed "them" to blow up/enlarge the print of Kirk floating out of the Enterprise, so that the scaffolding was cropped-out?
Until I read the Cinefantastique review, of what they called "ST:TMP 1.5", accompanied by a little b/w pic of the unfinished matte, it was the first I'd heard of it. Many viewers had not noticed the sequence showed the rafters of the studio's soundstage during that first ABC screening. If you're focussed on Shatner, you don't necessarily notice his surroundings.
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