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Old April 26 2014, 09:17 PM   #1066
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Kid can't shoot worth shit, he's going to be Arsenal for that reason alone.
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Old April 28 2014, 05:21 AM   #1067
LaxScrutiny
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
So, Ollie is losing his fortune. How long until they introduce one Hal Jordan, and the two go on a cross country road trip?
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.

Any actions that Isabel takes that are in bad faith or against the best interests of the shareholders would be subject to court action. All she can really do is not pay out dividends. This is probably what is hitting the Queen family at the moment.

They say they have to, or may have to, sell the mansion. The mansion must have incredible property tax, utilities, staff, etc. If there is no income from the company, then this might be possible.

The status of the Queen fortune is confusing, but it would likely conform to certain patterns. Moira would have inherited half of the fortune, and Ollie and Thea would split the remainder, or else Robert did something extremely weird with his will. You can't just cut your spouse out of your will and leave it all to your kid, and let's not get into Ollie having been legally dead. When Ollie returned, the ownership of the company and family fortune would have been redone, and Moira was happy to push Ollie into QC. Moira likely signed voting authority over to Ollie to account for dialogue early in the season when Isabel showed up and Ollie was said to own 50% after Walter helped him out.

Second, Ollie and Thea would have a trust fund, just like Tommy did in season 1, and would have independent income.

Third, Ollie would very likely have bought the derelict factory from QC in order to secure his privacy. The club is owned by him (IIRC Thea was only the manager) and would provide him with a steady income and secure base.

Fourth, Thea is heir to Merlin Industries, and this should be a plot point in season 3. Malcolm is known to be behind the destruction of the Glades and it is in his best interests to remain "dead."

Again, the writers will do what they want to drive the plot, but if QC is still a viable company, and we have no reason to believe otherwise, then the Queen fortune still exists. It just may not be liquid.
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Old April 28 2014, 07:39 AM   #1068
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Thus he remains a playboy millionaire.
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Old April 28 2014, 08:14 AM   #1069
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Merlin is a terrorist. All his assets would have been seized.
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Old April 28 2014, 04:23 PM   #1070
dansigal
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
So, Ollie is losing his fortune. How long until they introduce one Hal Jordan, and the two go on a cross country road trip?
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.

Any actions that Isabel takes that are in bad faith or against the best interests of the shareholders would be subject to court action. All she can really do is not pay out dividends. This is probably what is hitting the Queen family at the moment.

They say they have to, or may have to, sell the mansion. The mansion must have incredible property tax, utilities, staff, etc. If there is no income from the company, then this might be possible.

The status of the Queen fortune is confusing, but it would likely conform to certain patterns. Moira would have inherited half of the fortune, and Ollie and Thea would split the remainder, or else Robert did something extremely weird with his will. You can't just cut your spouse out of your will and leave it all to your kid, and let's not get into Ollie having been legally dead. When Ollie returned, the ownership of the company and family fortune would have been redone, and Moira was happy to push Ollie into QC. Moira likely signed voting authority over to Ollie to account for dialogue early in the season when Isabel showed up and Ollie was said to own 50% after Walter helped him out.

Second, Ollie and Thea would have a trust fund, just like Tommy did in season 1, and would have independent income.

Third, Ollie would very likely have bought the derelict factory from QC in order to secure his privacy. The club is owned by him (IIRC Thea was only the manager) and would provide him with a steady income and secure base.

Fourth, Thea is heir to Merlin Industries, and this should be a plot point in season 3. Malcolm is known to be behind the destruction of the Glades and it is in his best interests to remain "dead."

Again, the writers will do what they want to drive the plot, but if QC is still a viable company, and we have no reason to believe otherwise, then the Queen fortune still exists. It just may not be liquid.
Plus I wouldn't be surprised if Moira had a not so insignificant life insurance policy
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Old April 28 2014, 05:40 PM   #1071
Marc
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
So, Ollie is losing his fortune. How long until they introduce one Hal Jordan, and the two go on a cross country road trip?
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
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Old April 28 2014, 06:35 PM   #1072
Corran Horn
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Marc wrote: View Post
LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
So, Ollie is losing his fortune. How long until they introduce one Hal Jordan, and the two go on a cross country road trip?
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
yeap - Moira specifically said all they had was (I assume substantial) real-estate holdings.
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Old April 28 2014, 07:35 PM   #1073
Marc
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Marc wrote: View Post
LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
yeap - Moira specifically said all they had was (I assume substantial) real-estate holdings.
And they tend not to be easy to convert quickly to cash. Plus if you try and liquidate them quickly the tendancy is to look a boat load of money.

So yeah Ollie's heading towards broke.

But wonder if The Verdant is in Olliver's name or part of the Queen Family real estate holdings.

Of course if Isabel doesn't return to QC Ollie could be back in the CEO's seat.
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Old April 28 2014, 08:35 PM   #1074
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Marc wrote: View Post
LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
So, Ollie is losing his fortune. How long until they introduce one Hal Jordan, and the two go on a cross country road trip?
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
Yeah, I don't think that technically makes sense, but it was stated that the 51% ownership was relatively meaningless now.
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Old April 28 2014, 11:57 PM   #1075
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Marc wrote: View Post
LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
The show often plays fast and loose with law and finance, and of course the writers can and will do what they want to drive the plot. That said, Ollie hasn't lost his fortune according to anything portrayed on screen.

Ollie owns/controls 50% of QC. He signed over the position of CEO to Isabel. This doesn't change the fact that he owns half the company. He has a substantial net worth, just probably limited income. Isabel can't destroy his net worth without bankrupting QC, and that hasn't been the plot.
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
Yeah, I don't think that technically makes sense, but it was stated that the 51% ownership was relatively meaningless now.
If she made his 51% worthless, then wouldn't her 49% also be worthless?

If she created a new company on the bones of the old company, then Ollie should receive new stock commensurate with the old value.

IIRC, a CEO that turns the value of their stock into ashes has failed his/her fiduciary responsibility to the company and its shareholders and can have him/her removed.
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Old April 29 2014, 12:04 AM   #1076
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
If she made his 51% worthless, then wouldn't her 49% also be worthless?
Presumably yes.

If she created a new company on the bones of the old company, then Ollie should receive new stock commensurate with the old value.
Which is why the whole thing doesn't really make sense. Perhaps issuing non-voting stock so controlling share isn't diluted, but I don't even think that's necessarily allowable.

IIRC, a CEO that turns the value of their stock into ashes has failed his/her fiduciary responsibility to the company and its shareholders and can have him/her removed.
Well, it depends on whether they're protected by the Business Judgment rule. I think, given the conflict of interest, they might not be protected. It's also possible the decisions were without any justification, which would allow you to overcome that rule. Either way, though, that's not something that can be done the next day. It would have to be done at the next shareholder election or, perhaps, you could force it to happen through a derivative suit. Both would take time. I'm expecting her to die before the end of the season, which is a much quicker way to solve the same problem
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Old April 29 2014, 12:42 AM   #1077
LaxScrutiny
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Marc wrote: View Post
Except that as noted in last weeks episode, Isobel dilluted the value of Oliver's shares in QC to the point where they are next to worthless.
Well, again, the writers will do what they need to drive the plot, but she can't just "dilute" Ollie's shares. She would have to dilute every share in the company. She would be able to issue new shares, which would bring in new investment in the company, or she could authorize bonds, etc. be converted into shares, which would reduce the company's liabilities.

Doing this to the point of driving the share value down to almost zero could not be done in a week or a month. I doubt it could be done in a year. It would require issuing shares at a fraction of their value, which would be all over the headlines.

While it is certainly possible that she brought criminal pressure onto the other executives, she could not keep what she was doing secret. QC is apparently publicly traded, which is how she got her foot in the door in the first place. The company has to be audited yearly, there has to be a public report, quarterly statements, etc.
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Old April 29 2014, 12:46 AM   #1078
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Well, I don't expect she wants her actions to be long-term, she just needs to bankrupt the Queens, not hold onto the company. I suppose she also wanted short-term revenue to fuel Mirakuru production as well.
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Old April 29 2014, 12:54 AM   #1079
LaxScrutiny
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, I don't expect she wants her actions to be long-term, she just needs to bankrupt the Queens, not hold onto the company. I suppose she also wanted short-term revenue to fuel Mirakuru production as well.
Exactly. I could see doing something to shut down Ollie's revenue, that is all they really need if they are planning to "win" within the next few weeks anyway. I just can't see wiping out the entire family fortune permanently.
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Old April 29 2014, 12:55 AM   #1080
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Wouldn't there be investors who want to get paid? Even though her actions might be unlawful, there are people who validly relied on them.
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