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Old November 21 2013, 08:03 PM   #346
Icemizer
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I also like how they foreshadowed Slade with the mask without him having to wear the mask. Thought that was very clever.
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Old November 21 2013, 09:57 PM   #347
Morpheus 02
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
In a (so far) spectacular season, the court scenes in this episode really stood out as inept and mishandled.

Jean Loring is the worst lawyer I have ever seen on a television program. She objected once when Thea took the stand and was overruled. After that, she didn't bother to object again -- even when Laurel was just blasting her client with allegation after allegation and not even bothering to pretend to be cross-examining Moira.

Every time they cut to Jean at the defendant's table, she was just watching blankly as her client and their defense strategy was being ripped apart or she was jotting notes on a legal pad (probably devising elaborate murder schemes to reunite her with her ex-husband).

After the verdict was announced and Ollie reacted by doubting its authenticity, I expected him to say, "Innocent? But Jean Loring was her attorney..." At least the verdict was explained away as being the result of Merlyn's tampering and not the result of Jean Loring's terrible skills or the jury being swayed by Moira's stiff and unsympathetic testimony.

Bungled defense aside, the decision by District Attorney Manhunter to make Laurel the lead counsel in such a high-profile case against the mother of her ex-boyfriend and current BFF makes zero sense. Clearly this was done for dramatic reasons, but it remains preposterous on several levels.

However: whenever the show exited the courthouse, Arrow returned to being the cool show that I've greatly enjoyed this past season. The prison breakout and Doll-Maker cameo were excellent and -- though I hated the killer GA of last season -- the arrows into the chest of Vertigo weren't unwarranted or indiscriminate. In this situation, I feel he was justified to use lethal means. My hope is that this action has consequences in future episodes and not just shrugged off by the character or his writers.

"I have associates...including (hee hee) one in the DA's office"...I assume the asst. district attorney is the one who chose Laurel, and set up on her end what was needed to lose. (Also, access to the jury).

The whole trial was ridiculous (over and done in what, 2 days?), but the verdict "makes sense".

i'll let it roll to let the storyline go on.
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Old November 21 2013, 10:15 PM   #348
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I think for drama's sake it would have been better for her to have been found guilty and sentenced to death.

The Merlin stuff was just stupid.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:24 AM   #349
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

I thought everything outside of the courtroom in this one was good. For one thing there is no way a trial like that would be over so quick. Don't most of those kinds of trials usually take weeks? Also I doubt very much Laurel would be allowed to play that big of a role in the trial given her relationship with the Queen family.
I though the island stuff was pretty good, but I really liked the stuff with The Count. He's been one of my favorite villains so far, and I thought he went out with a strong appearance. I was pretty shocked to see Ollie actually kill him, but it did seem appropriate in the situation.
I knew that Barrowman was coming back, but I did not expect it to actually be a scene in the present. I did not expect the Thea reveal, but now that it's been revealed, it's really not that surprising.
I'm still wondering if all of these deaths and references to having died, and the presence of the League of Assassin's means we will see a Lazarus Pit sometime soon.
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Old November 22 2013, 02:35 AM   #350
Marc
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

JD wrote: View Post
I thought everything outside of the courtroom in this one was good. For one thing there is no way a trial like that would be over so quick. Don't most of those kinds of trials usually take weeks? Also I doubt very much Laurel would be allowed to play that big of a role in the trial given her relationship with the Queen family.
think a trial like Moira's would actually be quite quickly. The prosecution had pretty much a slam dunk case with the video confession.

Calling witnesses such as the families of those who died wouldn't really have achieve anything and been of minimal relevance to the case.

Would have been up to the defence to try and prove mitigation because there was no doubt of her involvement in the conspiracy.

And who could the defence really have called?
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Old November 22 2013, 04:59 AM   #351
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Did anyone else notice that Blood called the bloke who survived his experiment "Cyrus"? I wonder if by any chance his surname is Gold...and if he was born on a Monday...?
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Old November 22 2013, 02:21 PM   #352
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

It'll save him a fortune in eye-shadow, thus propping up Queen Consolodated.
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Old November 22 2013, 06:13 PM   #353
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Well, since the mask will soon come into play and judging by the short clip released yesterday with Roy and Felicity the identity of Arrow will be a main theme for the next few episodes.
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Old November 22 2013, 07:06 PM   #354
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Reverend wrote: View Post
Did anyone else notice that Blood called the bloke who survived his experiment "Cyrus"? I wonder if by any chance his surname is Gold...and if he was born on a Monday...?
At Blastr.com, they're reporting that his last name is Gold and he'll be making an appearance on the episode after next. Bring forth GRUNDY!
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Old November 23 2013, 12:24 AM   #355
LaxScrutiny
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

[QUOTE=CorporalClegg;8919430]
Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
There were at least three times she could have objected and any judge in America would have sustained. Of course, I don't know anything about Canadian law, so it's a chance they didn't know, but I find it highly unlikely that Canadian prosecutors are allowed ask leading questions to non-hostile witnesses or provide testimony.
I don't think the writers are necessarily Canadian, or reading Canadian law texts. Canadian procecutors would be under similar restrictions.

What was worse was the entire secret evidence thing. There is this thing called disclosure. It requires that each side provide any and all evidence beforehand so that neither is blindsided.

The DA would have had to disclose the evidence that Moira slept with Merlyn long before the trial started. If the evidence only just became available, then it would have to be disclosed before it could be used.

However I can live with unrealistic courtroom drama because TV courtroom drama has never been that realistice.

What I want to know is, where did they get that "proof" that Moira slept with Merlyn?
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Old November 23 2013, 02:25 AM   #356
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Yeah, I actually thought the proof would be revealed in court - that Thea is Malcom's daughter.
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Old November 23 2013, 02:35 AM   #357
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

The defence would have been a list of all the other women in the world that the billionaire industrialist playboy Malcolm Merlin had also slept with.

And you thought that there would have been no good reasons to have the Kardashians on Arrow?
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Old November 23 2013, 02:40 AM   #358
Sto-Vo-Kory
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
What I want to know is, where did they get that "proof" that Moira slept with Merlyn?
That's funny. And a good question. Maybe the district attorney slipped into her Manhunter costume and found proof from 18-19 years ago to use in the trial.

I remember an episode last season where some dude O.D.ed shortly after leaving Ollie's night club and Lance suspected that Tommy and Ollie were involved in selling Vertigo. Lance subpoenaed their accounting books and LATER THAT SAME DAY, Lance's partner told him that they had found a thousand dollars missing from the books. That is one helluva forensic accountant working for Starling City to find a thousand dollar discrepancy after just a few hours of pouring over their books!

LaxScrutiny, you also brought up a good point about disclosure. When Laurel came to Moira with her "secret weapon" info, she said something like, "I could get dis-barred for telling you this."* Or, Laurel, you could just be following the rules of discovery by telling the opposing side any new information learned over the course of the trial.

* Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume she was referring to speaking with Moira without her attorney present on the "dis-barring" thing, but that's a generous assumption given how the writers mangled every other legal aspect of this episode.
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Old November 23 2013, 02:46 AM   #359
Guy Gardener
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Oh I get it.

Malcolm leaked the affair, so that he could save the day.

Not to get Moira, she stole his daughter... He wants a new heir.
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Old November 23 2013, 03:30 AM   #360
Kai "the spy"
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Re: Arrow - Season 2

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
In a (so far) spectacular season, the court scenes in this episode really stood out as inept and mishandled.

Jean Loring is the worst lawyer I have ever seen on a television program. She objected once when Thea took the stand and was overruled. After that, she didn't bother to object again -- even when Laurel was just blasting her client with allegation after allegation and not even bothering to pretend to be cross-examining Moira.

Every time they cut to Jean at the defendant's table, she was just watching blankly as her client and their defense strategy was being ripped apart or she was jotting notes on a legal pad (probably devising elaborate murder schemes to reunite her with her ex-husband).

After the verdict was announced and Ollie reacted by doubting its authenticity, I expected him to say, "Innocent? But Jean Loring was her attorney..." At least the verdict was explained away as being the result of Merlyn's tampering and not the result of Jean Loring's terrible skills or the jury being swayed by Moira's stiff and unsympathetic testimony.
Not to mention Thea's testimony could have easily been saved (or at least damage controlled) by Jean in redirect, by establishing that, while Thea initially blamed her mother for the destruction of the Glades, she eventually did forgive her, and then simply ask Thea her reason(s) to do so. This could even have been used to hurt the prosecution, demonstrating that, while it is natural to blame Moira, it would only be an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

And I learned that from watching David E. Kelley shows. Imagine what an actual lawyer could have come up with.
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