RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,903
Posts: 5,477,235
Members: 25,051
Currently online: 669
Newest member: GrammaticalFict

TrekToday headlines

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 9 2013, 11:49 PM   #61
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
You've got a different definition of the general public?
Different expectation. Not different definition. That mix of different people with different backgrounds has a proven ability to embrace new SF work that does not come couched in "familiar" names. So far as I can see, that is a fact. If you have a genuinely strong concept, the amount of Trek people are or aren't familiar with, or whether you're coating it in familiar names to make it go down easier, should not matter.

(We really are kind of just repeating ourselves at this point.)
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 11:52 PM   #62
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

BigJake wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
You've got a different definition of the general public?
Different expectation. Not different definition. That mix of different people with different backgrounds has a proven ability to embrace new SF work that does not come couched in "familiar" names. So far as I can see, that is a fact.
Which doesn't change what's needed or expected in a sequel to something. That's a fact. You don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 11:55 PM   #63
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
I'm leaning further toward the theory that this is people unconsciously using the apocryphal "general audience" as a stand-in for preferences of theirs that they assume to be general.
That might be the truth.
Most people tend to think they have the silent majority on their side in these debates.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 11:56 PM   #64
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
I'm leaning further toward the theory that this is people unconsciously using the apocryphal "general audience" as a stand-in for preferences of theirs that they assume to be general.
That might be the truth.
Most people tend to think they have the silent majority on their side in these debates.
Most people, particularly on the internet, don't know others there well enough to make any claims.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2013, 11:59 PM   #65
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which doesn't change what's needed in a sequel to something.
Except that you haven't demonstrated that something loosely using a common setting must be interpreted as a "sequel."
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 12:01 AM   #66
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

BigJake wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which doesn't change what's needed in a sequel to something.
Except that you haven't demonstrated that something loosely using a common setting must be interpreted as a "sequel."
Are you really going to play that game? Are you really going to ask what makes something a sequel?
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 12:04 AM   #67
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Most people tend to think they have the silent majority on their side in these debates.
At least we're not in "the lurkers support me in e-mail" territory...
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 12:06 AM   #68
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Are you really going to play that game? Are you really going to ask what makes something a sequel?
Dude, the hostility isn't called for. Kindly dial it down.

I'm not asking "what makes something a sequel." I'm pointing out that using a common setting does not make something a sequel. And AFAICS it's a fact. I am not "playing a game" with you.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 12:16 AM   #69
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

BigJake wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Are you really going to play that game? Are you really going to ask what makes something a sequel?
Dude, the hostility isn't called for. Kindly dial it down.
"Dude," this isn't hostility, believe me. It's a legitimate question.
I'm not asking "what makes something a sequel." I'm pointing out that using a common setting does not make something a sequel. And AFAICS it's a fact. I am not "playing a game" with you.
Oh, so you're just not getting it.

So, I'll recap and summarize: It's just a case that when there's a sequel to something, some fans of the original--regardless of their level of fandom--might like to see something from it there, and the creators do take that into consideration when doing the sequel. And AFAICS that's a fact.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 12:47 AM   #70
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
"Dude," this isn't hostility, believe me.
Okay, if you say so...

It's just a case that when there's a sequel to something, some fans of the original--regardless of their level of fandom--might like to see something from it there, and the creators do take that into consideration when doing the sequel.
Letting the "sequel" thing go for the moment: I completely agree that this is a common sentiment in fandom. That's what I said at the outset. That doesn't make it a sentiment of "the general public;" it means it is a form of fan-service.

It just isn't a necessary one. If it's not something most of the fans need, and if the fans are at any rate not a large enough population to maintain the franchise, and it's not something the general public needs... then creators should feel free to make the creative decision that feels right.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 01:05 AM   #71
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

BigJake wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
"Dude," this isn't hostility, believe me.
Okay, if you say so...

It's just a case that when there's a sequel to something, some fans of the original--regardless of their level of fandom--might like to see something from it there, and the creators do take that into consideration when doing the sequel.
Letting the "sequel" thing go for the moment
No, let's not let it go, because the "sequel" thing is precisely what I'm talking about. You've been arguing with me over everything else.
I completely agree that this is a common sentiment in fandom.
It's a common sentiment in Hollywood.
That doesn't make it a sentiment of "the general public;" it means it is a form of fan-service.
No, that's assuming that there aren't any fans of an original production in the general public when that's definitely not true.
It just isn't a necessary one.
I disagree. I think it is necessary for a sequel to carry something from the original.
If it's not something most of the fans need, and if the fans are at any rate not a large enough population to maintain the franchise, and it's not something the general public needs...
I don't share that opinion at all.
then creators should feel free to make the creative decision that feels right.
Sure, if they want to alienate fans of the original production with the sequel. Otherwise, they generally include something from it to appease them. You can call it fanservice if you want, but it's still giving members of an audience something they want or are familiar with.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 01:15 AM   #72
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

I mainly just wanted us to get past blaming this sentiment on "the general public." Now that we know what we are talking about, the rest is just arguing about what degree of "something familiar" this form of fan-service actually needs. I think the conclusive answer to that question is "the setting and concept," you think something else, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't want to completely submerge David's thread in this digression at any rate, and while I'd be happy to have this conversation:

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
No, let's not let it go, because the "sequel" thing is precisely what I'm talking about.
... because in fact I do think your understanding of when that term is a propos is flawed, I can't help but feeling that the discussion is overheating at this point. Much as I appreciate your assurances of non-hostility I think we'd be better off giving it a break.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 01:32 AM   #73
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

BigJake wrote: View Post
I mainly just wanted us to get past blaming this sentiment on "the general public."
Who is this "us?" I'm not blaming anything. I'm just saying is that when something becomes very popular, some aspects of it become known to the general public, and when a sequel to it is made, it's expected that some of those aspects are included in it.
Now that we know what we are talking about, the rest is just arguing about what degree of "something familiar" this form of fan-service actually needs. I think the conclusive answer to that question is "the setting and concept," you think something else, we'll have to agree to disagree.
You're still not getting it. I've been pointing out various examples of things from a popular series that can be familiar to an audience. It can be anything that's well-known--from a particular character or characters, to a setting, to a concept, or even just the name of a certain ship.
I don't want to completely submerge David's thread in this digression at any rate, and while I'd be happy to have this conversation:

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
No, let's not let it go, because the "sequel" thing is precisely what I'm talking about.
... because in fact I do think your understanding of when that term is a propos is flawed, I can't help but feeling that the discussion is overheating at this point. Much as I appreciate your assurances of non-hostility I think we'd be better off giving it a break.
The only one that seems to be offended or thinking things are getting hostile is you (although I'd like you to stop psycho-analyzing me though). And there's nothing remotely flawed about my understanding of a sequel. To me, it doesn't make sense at all to do a sequel to something and don't have anything from the original in it. That defeats the entire purpose of doing a sequel, really.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 01:38 AM   #74
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

Yeah. I think that will do.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 10 2013, 01:41 AM   #75
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Star Trek: To Boldly Go

It was done quite some time ago, really.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.