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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old October 5 2013, 11:38 PM   #1
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Location: Netherlands
How do you look at the different series?

I'm curious how everyone thinks about the different series - which things come to your mind - other than the characters, obviously - as being particularly integral to this series rather than that one.

For me:

TOS is Spaceships, First Contacts, Alternate earths, Energy beings, Klingons (but only if the movies count), redshirts, alien fist fights, time travel and Robots

TNG is the Prime Directive, the Holodeck, Q, the Borg, el-aurians, Androids, Romulans, diplomacy and colonies

DS9 is Cardassians, Bajorans, Ferengi, the Dominion War, the Prophets, long running story arcs, Section 31, runabouts and regular people

Voy is the delta quadrant, transwarp, the Hirogen, 8472

Ent is xenophobia, history and nostalgia

Maybe I'll be able to think of more later, but I hope that should get things started.
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Old October 6 2013, 12:09 AM   #2
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

Star Trek is fun and rewatchable. The rest have their moments but really lack any type of 'fun factor'.
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard, "Encounter at Farpoint"
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Old October 6 2013, 09:23 AM   #3
R. Star
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS was the foundation, clever in it's own regard but ultimately better things were built upon it. A few stand alone episodes were great, some were terrible, but most were just average. Really the six movies(four of them anyway) was TOS' finest hour.

TNG's structure got off to a shaky start, but by season 3 some fine writing and stories stabilized it and while there weren't any major arcs per se, there were numerous references and the sense of linearity even if it was into the next plot of the week for the post part.

DS9 reached Trek's highest and grandest point. The characters were real, the stories were engaging, they took chances and there were consequences without the reset button being employed so often. As frustrating as it was at the time, I miss the days of yearning for next week's DS9 episode.

By the time VOY came along the building was starting to show some wear and tear. The building still had some charm, but was showing it's age and there wasn't much new about it and if you dug deep enough, a lot not to like. A pity more work wasn't put into keeping the building new so to say, but the prospect of being lost in space quite literally forced them into the alien of the week repeat.

And Enterprise, the building started to crumble. Season's 1 and 2 were regarded with neglect and by the time seasons 3 and 4 started producing gems, the damage was irreversible and the building collapsed. Yet while it was there, there was some good stuff.

NuTrek... just takes the debris and rearranges it into a "new" building without actually creating anything we hadn't really seen before from the old. They compensate with a lot of glitter and paint to cover that up with graphics, but it's the old building still. Interesting in it's own right, but I wish it would build it's own unique story instead of just hashing the old pieces and calling it something new.

Well I guess I took that metaphor about as far as it can go.
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
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Old October 6 2013, 09:57 AM   #4
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS - I look upon with fond childhood memories. Probably what sticks with me the most is the Spock/Bones dynamic.

TNG - The Federation statesmen travelling around the quadrant, building new/stronger relations with other races.

DS9 - Darker, grittier, complex, brilliant.

VOY - Seven, Borg, Seven, Holograms, Seven, Janeway, Seven. Nice idea, badly executed.

ENT - Nice idea, badly executed again--only this time with gazelles.

NuTrek - So long as I don't think about lens flares, emotionally unstable NuSpock, terrible NuUhura, rehashed scripts, supertransporters, megawarp, mammoth starships, then its ok to watch in small doses.
Commander Austin Harris, First Officer, Deep Space Nine (by FltCpt. Bossco)
8.01 - Darkest Before Dawn (Chapter 8 added, 12/09/2015)
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Old October 6 2013, 10:40 AM   #5
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS - The original and the best. Lovable characters, fun, action and adventure in space.

TNG - Pretentious, self-important, PC, terrible direction, cardboard characters. Despite all that, a couple of great episodes here and there.

DS9 - Drab settings, whiny Bajorans, annoying Ferengi, Worf. Some nice space battles later.

VOY - Some likeable characters, an overload of technobabble, planet of the week.

ENT - Awful start, recycled planet of the week plots, then became awesome, fun and exciting when the Xindi came along.

nuTrek - The lovable characters of the original reinvented. Fun, action, adventure and spectacle like nothing before in Trek.

Novelverse - takes the cardboard characters and adds depth. Constant chaos and destruction since the Borg came.
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
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Old October 6 2013, 11:10 AM   #6
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

I give you quotes that sum up how I feel about each series..

TOS: "I'M Captain Kirk!"

TNG: "No, Will, we can't! We have to save humanity! "

DS9: "They're tricky, those tides."

VOY: "Get the cheese to sickbay!"

ENT: "Captain - your presence here has not been... overly meddlesome. "

You and Hitler oughta get together
You oughta learn to knit and wear matching sweaters
Janeway does Melbourne
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Old October 6 2013, 02:16 PM   #7
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

How do I look at each series?

I sit in front of the TV and orient my eyeballs to the screen.
"If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra
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Old October 6 2013, 03:37 PM   #8
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS - Cheesy, daring, awful and inspired by turns: a gloriously chaotic juxtaposition of high concept and lowbrow elements, progressive aspirations and unabashed chauvinism. Amazingly evocative on a shoestring budget, Trek at its freest and most charming notwithstanding Kirk's gradually-rising Marty Stu count and Spock's tendency to spontaneously manifest plot-motivated superpowers.

(The TOS movies - Leaving aside the curiously inert TMP and the disaster of The Final Frontier, these were mostly broken by cloying, setting-smothering sentimentalism, save for The Wrath of Khan which provided a nearly pitch-perfect take on theme of advancing age and its effect on the perspective of the adventurer. If only they'd stopped there.)

TNG - Trek on a more blandly even keel, with less cheese but less daring, bigger budgets but less integrity. Drenched the heroes in the pretentious self-satisfaction of utopian ambassadors to the primitives, a disastrous idea that would permanently hobble the Nineties franchise henceforth; but had some fresh dramatic ideas and moments of real excellence to compensate for the too-safe second-hand feel.

(The TNG movies - varying degrees of awful, even at their best showing a curious refusal to build, explicitly or tacitly, on the seven seasons' worth of character work and development that should have been their greatest strength.)

DS9 - The weight and weariness of Continuity is starting to show; to compensate DS9 is forced to venture right out of the action-adventure box and into attempting straight-ahead drama. The results are mixed, at points quite impressive but not consistent enough... and another, fresher franchise has come along in the form of Babylon 5. DS9 is finally forced to imitate, in inferior fashion, the new franchise's interstellar war arc and resort to stunt-casting to stay afloat.

VOY - The launch into the Delta Quadrant can't mask that this a tack back into safe, staid Trek territory. A wasted opportunity mainly notable for featuring the most egregious instance of stunt-casting-for-tits in all of Trek.

ENT - The show-that-must-not-be-named. Another potentially daring shift of setting too timid to venture outside the straitjackets of the existing Trek style. John Billingsley and Jolene Blalock are wasted opposite an underdrawn human cast tepidly conceived as backwoods avatars of Earth's Sensawunda. The first time watching Trek felt like work. I'm told it got better in the third season but I'm afraid they lost me so definitively in the first season that I'll probably never know.

NuTrek - The Trek universe rebooted with its cartoonish elements dialled up to eleven, a Starfleet curiously reminiscent of the Improbably Powerful Student Council manga trope, and characters transfigured into full-on comic book heroes with Kirk's Marty Stu count now through the roof and into orbit. Some thrilling set-pieces and ace visuals, the infamous lens flare notwithstanding, and some good character ideas within the limits of the concept, but the stories don't make a lick of sense even on their own terms and are so broken that by the end of Movie Two the writers have -- probably unwittingly -- literally rendered both death and starships superfluous in the setting.

On the upside, they've revived popular interest in TOS, and since Starfleet is no longer needed in the "alternate timeline" perhaps we can safely give the rest of that a miss and stage a full-on return to Trek's roots. I like to think there are always... possibilities.
"The real and lasting victories are those of peace, and not of war." - Emerson
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Old October 6 2013, 04:32 PM   #9
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS: Grand fun, big ideas. A stumble at the finish line saved by some great movies.
TNG: Rocky start, brilliant middle, shaky end. Movies that weren't as good as the series.
DS9: Gently TNG at the beginning, later finding it's own beautiful voice.
VOY: So much potential. Some wasted, some not.
ENT: Poorly timed, rarely really great but also unfairly overlooked.
ALT: A rollicking, rickety embrace of the more obvious TOS elements.
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Old October 6 2013, 05:11 PM   #10
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS: The big three; Kirk, Bones, and Spock (and company). The beginning of a dream. A few good episodes but the movies was where they shined.

TNG: A slow start, through the eyes of exploring diplomats, Trek expanded. Factions are more defined. Through morals, duty, and honor, Star Trek's base was becoming more than an adventure.

DS9: A slower start, Trek expands again. Everyone isn't Ok with everyone else and sides are chosen. War-time space opera with more dynamic characters than before (Not Ezri). A darker (albeit needed) side of Trek.

Voy: An even slower start, the galaxy expands. The concept was great but not executed as good as it could have been. Characters aren't as dynamic but the crew were more of a family than ever. Back to alien of the week without the catching up on them later factor (Did Ocampa survive? Are the Malon still jerks after Voyager showed them a better way? What are the Hirogen up to?). An equal mix of good and bad. Trek loosing it's touch.

Ent: The end of that continuing mission feel. A loss of a lot of Trek quality (even the opening credit's music). Character are even less dynamic (some without any real back story). A few good episodes, the tie-in were the best (other than it's finally).

NuTrek: Character dynamics aren't as good as previous series though they only had two movies to build it. Not worried about Prime Trek revivability with the alternate reality route they took, and how Prime Spock didn't cease to exist. Back to action. Good for the movies, though if they make another series I'd rather it be in the Prime timeline. I liked Into Darkness as a homage movie though I hope part 3 is more original.

Last edited by bbjeg; October 7 2013 at 06:47 AM.
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Old October 6 2013, 05:26 PM   #11
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS - Cheesey to say the least, bad acting but overall fun to watch and is the original but in this case I would say not the best. Some great episodes though Space Seed, Balance of Terror, Tholian Web etc. etc.

TNG - Rocky start but had some gems in the first 2 seasons, season 3 onwards for me contains some of the best Star Trek to date. Laid the foundation of things to come, Klingon story arcs, Ferengi, Romulans, Borg. Great episodes like Yesterday's Enterprise, The Best of Both Worlds, Data's Day, Redemption, Unification etc. etc.

DS9 - Probably the most re watchable series for me but again Season 3 onwards were most enjoyable, fantastic reoccurring characters, great story arcs. Season 6/7 were the best seasons of any Star Trek series IMO.

VOY - Got me into Star Trek, again features some of my Trek episodes, Future's End, Scorpion, Year of Hell, Message in a Bottle, Timeless. I generally enjoy seasons 4-7 more than 1-3 though.

ENT - Like Broken Bow but not much after that to be honest, watched as it aired and was continually disappointed but kept hoping it'd get better. Some good episodes like The Andorian Incident, Breaking the Ice, Cold Front, Silent Enemy, Shadows of P'Jem, Shockwave and Future Tense but wouldn't consider these great episodes just re watchable... And Finally I actually like These are the Voyages it made it all seem like it was all just Rikers fantasy

Abramsverse - Really like Star Trek 2009 but not so much a fan of Into Darkness, will have to see the third installment before making up my mind fully but can certainly say I prefer the Primeline
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Old October 6 2013, 06:52 PM   #12
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

What I see:

TOS: fun but often bad kitsch; but sometimes...sublime.

TNG: meh; stiff.

DS9: first two seasons, what's that smell? But a good wine or cheese.

VOY: coffee, titians, snark and nanites.

ENT: TOS redux with better sfx. But watch again, and it becomes something more.

JJ-TREK: cool, pew-pew. Too much action, needs more people TALKING to each other like grown-ups rather than exposition.
"Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha"
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Old October 6 2013, 07:53 PM   #13
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS: marriage of camp and 60s idealism. Love all of Kirk's speeches--the origins of Trek's expository style--and the Spock/McCoy barbs. Earth-like planets, soft-focus women, deified computers, and noncorporeal beings--Trek staples.

TNG: Trek idealism gets a huge boost with classical acting, Sean Connery in command. Time shifts and tricks, deflector array solutions, Riker's creepy flirtations, cramped shuttlecraft. Anthropology and diplomacy. Got better as Rodenberry let go of the reins.

DS9: Pinnacle of Trek storytelling. Examined the premises of Trek idealism and gave it a backbone. Garakisms, Dukatisms, Weyounisms, Quarkisms. Sisko's voice getting lower, lower, lower. It's a fake! It's real! She's my mother! She's a wormhole alien! Punch through! Be gods! Lots of taking things to the extreme.

VOY: TNG part II. Janeway's bitch fit in Scorpion I. Implants. Holodeckin'. The lovely Sara Silverman. Too much complaining about leola root. Kim's bad Laforge imitation. UPN.

ENT: Ruined by Temporal Cold War. Captain needs to watch Q Who: space is tough. SHRAN (in all is Weyouney goodness)! Catfishin'. Pockets on the sleeves. Steampunk-style warp core. Contrived high warp transfer. Potentially of the Romulans. Real development of Vulcans. T'Pol's slow blink.

JJ-Trek: Proves why Sci-Fi and comics should remain separate. Looks pretty. Ruined by temporal concept. Reworked tunic. Shields that seem to do nothing. Underthere! Sisyphus in the warp core.
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Old October 6 2013, 08:08 PM   #14
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS: Where it all began.
TNG: Successor to TOS.
DS9: Spinoff of TNG.
VOY: Spinoff of TNG demanded by UPN.
ENT: Replacement for VOY demanded by UPN.
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
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Old October 6 2013, 08:29 PM   #15
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Re: How do you look at the different series?

TOS: The weakest show in the series, cheesy, repetitive, at time bizarre, frequently average, often poor, occasionally, engaging, entertaining with an underlying brilliance. The TOS movies were the pinnacle of this show.

TNG: What TOS wishes it was. TNG was intelligent, philosophical, touching, funny and clever. A beautiful look at the human condition, what we are, what we should not be and what we can be. One of the greatest TV shows ever made.

DS9: Dark, gritty, yet with a streak of realism that all the other shows lack. It was far less subtle than TNG, it was more controversial, it injected realism and humanity into an idealistic world and showed how the Roddenberryesque vision would work for real. The pinnacle of the series. So so good.

VOY: Crimnially underrated. Similar to TNG except perhaps less....rigid. Voyager also had a DS9 like ability to be controversial. VOY was a family, it was dramatic, it was touching and so very very watchable. Funny and serious, adventurous and wonderous. On its day, it has the potential to be the best.

ENT: Functional. From the ship to the jumpsuits, ENT had a feel I simply adored. There was something 'realistic' about the whole show. It was capable of being gritty, dark and yet funny and light hearted. ENT is a weird mix of all the previous series.
#1. DS9 #2. TNG #3. VOY #4.ENT #5.TOS
We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. - Gene Roddenberry
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