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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old October 11 2013, 10:05 PM   #76
scotpens
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Sulu said that he was born in San Francisco, that would make him a American by birth. Of course, that makes the assumption that the city of San Francisco is part of the United States in the 23rd century.
A lot of people wonder whether it's a part of the United States now.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:17 PM   #77
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

^ Hey, I liked SF when I was there this summer. I thought it was pretty cool. Definitely not as miserable as L.A.

Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
My theory is most of the Bay Area is a Federal District that houses most the Federation's government offices.
I'd like to think that there is no more need for things like this in Trek's time.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
SO where do we think the UE Government sits, Geneva?
Paris, I think.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:47 PM   #78
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

MacLeod wrote: View Post
SO where do we think the UE Government sits, Geneva?
Beijing
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Old October 11 2013, 10:49 PM   #79
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Hollywood Werewolf wrote: View Post
Unspeakable wrote: View Post
Sulu said that he was born in San Francisco, that would make him a American by birth. Of course, that makes the assumption that the city of San Francisco is part of the United States in the 23rd century.
A lot of people wonder whether it's a part of the United States now.
No, that's Berkeley.
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Old October 11 2013, 10:59 PM   #80
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
My theory is most of the Bay Area is a Federal District that houses most the Federation's government offices.
I'd like to think that there is no more need for things like this in Trek's time.
Government offices?


MacLeod wrote: View Post
SO where do we think the UE Government sits, Geneva?
Paris, I think.
Maybe they'll do what America, Brazil and some others did and build a purpose built capital (like Washington D.C.), instead of locating it in a pre-existing city. Definitely should not be inside one of the United Earth's member countries. Perhaps a not too isolated island somewhere, connected to the mainland by a long causeway.

Make it so there are no residences in the capital itself, to avoid the problem we have in America with the endless high pitch whining from people who live in Washington D.C.

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Old October 11 2013, 11:07 PM   #81
Nerys Myk
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
Geoff Peterson wrote: View Post
My theory is most of the Bay Area is a Federal District that houses most the Federation's government offices.
I'd like to think that there is no more need for things like this in Trek's time.
Government offices?
I'm trying to figure out what he means, too. They'll have to have offices, organizations and people to staff them. Its not going to be self serve.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:17 AM   #82
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

I meant, there'd be no need for those government offices to have their own district.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:17 AM   #83
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

You know, I don't see any evidence that the US and UK governments did exist in the Star Trek future. Just because a country decides to maintain it's traditions (which explains the Union Flag being visible in London in Star Trek Into Darkness) doesn't necessarily infer they aren't part of a world government. And has there ever been a mention of the UK Prime Minister in Star Trek's time? No. Likewise the United States. No Star Trek story ever revolved around the President Of The United States. Plenty of stories have involved the Federation President, but no White House, no national congress.

My own view is that countries still exist in Star Trek's future, but their individual governments are more like local councils. The traditional sovereign borders probably still exist "on a map", but movement between them is free because the planet is united under a single government, and territorial imperitives are no longer a going concern. So things like the Union Flag in STID are more about a country maintaining it's cultural identity, in a world where the 'United Kingdom' doesn't practically exist per se, at least not in the form that it does in our own current world.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:19 AM   #84
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

Lance wrote: View Post
You know, I don't see any evidence that the US and UK governments did exist in the Star Trek future.
In ENT, Malcolm Reed's father and uncle served in the Royal Navy. Also, in the scene where Malcolm goes to meet with his Section 31 contact, a USA address is given (and identified as such).
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Old October 12 2013, 01:26 AM   #85
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

^ Ah, well, I admit I am less familiar with Enterprise than the other Trek shows, so I stand duly corrected sir. Of course, we might therefore theorize that in ENT, existing as it does during an 'earlier phase' of the great United Earth experiment (and by its own admission definitely before the formation of the UFP as it is seen in other versions of Star Trek), individual governments and sovereign borders were still maintained in a fashion not dis-similar to how they exist today.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:31 AM   #86
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

There's an easy explanation why we rarely see other countries in Trek's time: There's no need for it in the story. Hell, most Trek hardly even visited Earth at all.

And United Earth has been around for 30 years by the time ENT comes into play, so I'd assume the experimentation was over by that point.

FWIW, the novels do go into more detail on this point: Countries still exist, and always will. There's a SNW story set shortly after the Breen attack on SF, for example, where the city is visited by the Federation President, the United Earth Prime Minister, and the President of the United States.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:53 AM   #87
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
There's an easy explanation why we rarely see other countries in Trek's time: There's no need for it in the story. Hell, most Trek hardly even visited Earth at all.
This is the nub of the matter and is certainly very true. We have little evidence of how Earth goverments work in Star Trek, not because it is stated outright on screen, but precisely because it isn't stated on screen. Part of Roddenberry's original format states (I think) that the series should not make a habit of returning to Earth, which is precisely why we know so very little about how the 23rd/24th century Earth governments operate. The appearance of a Union Flag in STID is therefore not a contradiction, it's simply that we've not seen that kind of "on the ground" detail of Star Trek's future Earth ever before.
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Old October 12 2013, 02:14 AM   #88
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
I meant, there'd be no need for those government offices to have their own district.
Because of hitech communication?
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Old October 12 2013, 02:17 AM   #89
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

^ Because of the end of the antiquated notion that such districts need to exist in the first place. Just put them in a city like any other and be done with it.

And yes, DC should be a state.
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Old October 12 2013, 02:35 AM   #90
Nerys Myk
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Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era

George Steinbrenner wrote: View Post
^ Because of the end of the antiquated notion that such districts need to exist in the first place. Just put them in a city like any other and be done with it.

And yes, DC should be a state.
What's wrong with the concept and why is it "antiquated"? Obviously there is a problem with the status of DC, but why would every Federal District have to be like DC?
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