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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 4 2013, 10:36 PM   #31
garaks the best
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

BruntRIP wrote: View Post
I didn't really like Kira that much in the beginning either, but she really grew on me and became the best written female character in Star Trek IMO.
Definitely agree.
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Old October 11 2013, 05:34 AM   #32
GalaxyX
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Hey guys, sorry was busy for a bit so couldn't reply to your posts.
I actually spent some time rewatching some of the TNG episodes related to the Bajoran/Cardassian conflicts with my dad (primarily so he would understand the story)
We watched:
The Hunted
Ensign Ro
Chain of Command 1&2
Preemptive Strike
I was thinking about watching Lower Decks, but didn't think it was important enough story wise.
So with DS9 we just finished watching "The Nagus"
I don't see anything that would suggest she should, let alone does, have PTSD.
Ok, perhaps I misinterpreted it then. Still, Nana Visitor is off somehow, it's hard to explain. I think she's over the top most of the time.
In fact, half the main characters seem to be very angry all the time. Sisko, Kira, Odo in particular.
Why can't Nerys simply be an angry woman? I never thought she had PTSD, only that she is (understandably) angry in general.
So far the show needed a major character in it that wasn't pissed off all the time. None of the actors are (so far) pulling "angry" properly. Kira is the worst. There's no subtle layers of emotion, it's just bitch mode 24/7.
Sisko is not much better, but he's not "angry" per say, just a loudmouthed oaf.
Really the season 1 episode I show people to win them over is Duet. A powerful episode on so many levels and if you're not gonna like that, chances are you wouldn't the rest of the series anyways.
I'm not there yet. I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far though.
It would be believable if Kira had PTSD but I never saw any sign of that in the series. Just, in season one she was still in a trench mentality. The first time you see her kind of coming down from that and rediscovering her peacetime self was in Battle Lines when she breaks down to Opaca.
Hmm, I don't remember this. This will be interesting to watch.
I don't know what it is, but for the most part, the TOS actors are the only ones who actually have acting chops IMO, with the exception of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner when he's playing innocent Data (he sucks at everything else, he thinks he's a comedian) and Jeri Ryan, who ironically was hired to be the bimbo and out-acted all the main cast single handedly (except for Robert Picardo, who did a great job as the underappreciated EMH).
I haven't seen a DS9 equivalent yet, except maybe for Quark, I'm already liking his character quite a bit.
I didn't really like Kira that much in the beginning either, but she really grew on me and became the best written female character in Star Trek IMO.
Is there a best written male? Spock was a great character because Leonard Nemoy had this amazing ability to portray a character conflicted by underlying emotion trying to defeat the logic he forced on himself *without* just seeming like an asshole. Tim Russ payed Tuvok as an asshole. Jolene Blalock played T'Pol as a bitch. Mark Lenard was almost as good as Nemoy but misses the mark.
Any male actor who was great, was due to the acting chops of the actor, not the writing. I can't think of a well written character of any gender actually. Maybe Ensign Ro? But I may change my mind after I finish with DS9
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Old October 11 2013, 08:24 AM   #33
Navaros
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

GalaxyX, I absolutely agree with you about Nana Visitor's acting whenever she tries to be emotional. I mean that both in terms of when Visitor/Kira has hissy fits (which she does constantly in Season 1), and when she gets weepy. Her acting is outright bad in either case, every time, and highly unwatchable.

Brooks has the same exact acting problems IMO.

Thankfully, after Season 1, Visitor/Kira has hissy fits/weepy cries far less often, although they still come up from time to throughout the series, and still ruin every scene in which they happen.

Season 1 of DS9 is by far the worst of the series. Every season, from 2-7, has about 5-6 terrible episodes, with the rest ranging from "okay" to "great." But Season 1 has much more than 6 terrible episodes.

Auberjonois' Odo performance gets a lot more nuanced and complex after Season 1. I agree with you that Shimerman is a great actor and that comes across in Quark. IMO Auberjonois/Odo is equally magnificent, but in Season 1 Odo isn't yet defined well-enough for that to come through.

IMO DS9's Season 1 was bad mainly because it was trying to rehash TNG's formula. They stopped doing that after Season 1.
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Old October 11 2013, 08:37 AM   #34
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I used to be more of a TNG guy. I remember after finishing that show I didn't think Trek would ever surpass that kind of show ever again. Then I watched DS9 it and blew me away. Now I'm pretty much a Niner, full on.
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Old October 11 2013, 04:30 PM   #35
dub
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
I used to be more of a TNG guy. I remember after finishing that show I didn't think Trek would ever surpass that kind of show ever again. Then I watched DS9 it and blew me away. Now I'm pretty much a Niner, full on.
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Old October 12 2013, 12:57 AM   #36
SignGuyHPW
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I gave DS9 a chance when it first aired and just could not get into it at all. I didn't really watch much after that except an episode here and there when Worf joined the crew. I think my main problem was that it was a stationary base that had to have problems come to them rather than traditional Star Trek exploration of space. A few years ago I decided to try it again and checked out the season sets from the library in order. I actually really enjoyed it from season 3 forward and didn't dislike the first two seasons as strongly as I had initially.
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Old October 12 2013, 07:48 AM   #37
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I find it curious why many say Season 3 is when the series really took off. I'd say that about Season 4, because other than the introduction of the Defiant, there's not a lot of difference between the first three seasons, as far as the consistency of the quality (better than TNG's early years, but nothing special). The first season was a solid start, while the second season is where the show found its identity, the Defiant was added into the mix for the third season and then the show finally hit its stride with the fourth season.
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Old October 12 2013, 01:08 PM   #38
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
So far the show needed a major character in it that wasn't pissed off all the time. None of the actors are (so far) pulling "angry" properly. Kira is the worst. There's no subtle layers of emotion, it's just bitch mode 24/7.
Sisko is not much better, but he's not "angry" per say, just a loudmouthed oaf.

I'm not there yet. I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far though.
I won't insist that you like the character, but I do think that this approach is typical of Star Trek series: certain characters are played in an extreme manner, but that is dialed back over the course of the series. It's worth noting that both Dorn and Visitor went into their auditions in character and neve broke, portraying a constant hostility and rigidness. And in both cases, the extremeness of the portrayal gave the writers something to work with, allowing the characters to become more nuanced as they were challenged. I think you'll find the character more developed and complex by the end of the series.
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Old October 19 2013, 06:14 AM   #39
GalaxyX
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

SignGuyHPW wrote: View Post
I gave DS9 a chance when it first aired and just could not get into it at all. I didn't really watch much after that except an episode here and there when Worf joined the crew. I think my main problem was that it was a stationary base that had to have problems come to them rather than traditional Star Trek exploration of space. A few years ago I decided to try it again and checked out the season sets from the library in order. I actually really enjoyed it from season 3 forward and didn't dislike the first two seasons as strongly as I had initially.
I'm kind of finding it the same.

I am not hating it anywhere as much as I expected to this time around.

Saw Duet today. Interesting episode. Definitely deeper than your typical Trek. I vaguely remember it from the first time round, but enjoyed it quite a bit this time round. Ignoring what I still feel is a bit of weak acting from Nana Visitor, I thought it was cool to see Kira understand at the end that not all Cardassians were assholes, and some of them felt just as powerless as the Bajorans did.


I think I understand one of the reasons I originally couldn't stand the show. I think it was to do with the fact that I felt I was trying to be sold a story that was never really shown. We are never shown a Cardassian occupation. We are never shown the atrocities they supposedly committed. But we are supposed to believe it by the anger portrayed by the actors.

I think once you can brush that expectation aside, the show does become easier to watch and more enjoyable.
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Old October 19 2013, 11:05 AM   #40
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

You do get shown some of the Occupation via flasbacks and science fiction woowoo
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Old October 19 2013, 06:21 PM   #41
2takesfrakes
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

With DS9, I wanted better, but was OK with what we got.
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Old October 20 2013, 06:48 AM   #42
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I think it works better for us not to see the Occupation. You hear some of the stories about what they went through, then can apply either our history or your imagination (or a combination of the two) to come up with just how bad you think the Occupation was. That makes it far more harrowing than anything the writers (as good as they were on DS9) could have created for our TV screens.
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Old October 20 2013, 07:48 AM   #43
BruntFCA
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

There's an episode in season 2 called "Necessary Evil" that is one of my favorite episodes in all of Star Trek and it should shed some light on the occupation.
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Old October 20 2013, 09:26 AM   #44
teacake
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

I like the way DS9 jumps into an established history with all the players having a place within it. More so than the other Trek's where most of the main players history at the beginning is: Starfleet Academy.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:15 PM   #45
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

One thing I really think makes DS9 stand out among Treks is that we get to see the experience of living in the Trekverse from entities other than the Federation. We get to see that some races are ruthlessly exploited (Bajorans), that humans can behave badly when taken away from their comforts, and some races can not share Federation values and still be a positive force (Ferengi). We also get to see interesting perspectives on the Federation from outsiders (Quark, Odo, Garak).
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