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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 5 2013, 06:56 AM   #16
LisbonPlayer
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Click!

I say it symbolizes a harsher, post-Vulcan Federation. The usual Federation flag appears at the start of the movie in London, outside the Kelvin Memorial Archive.
Nope. That flag is at the academy assembly hall hours before Vulcan is destroyed.
In ST09 we actually can see three different versions of the UFP flag: Besides the "cogwheel" flag there's the "classical" blue one with the "United Federation of Planets" script at the shipyard and at the Academy exteriors and a white variant with classical logo and script also at the academy grounds.
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Old October 5 2013, 03:33 PM   #17
iguana_tonante
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

LisbonPlayer wrote: View Post
In ST09 we actually can see three different versions of the UFP flag: Besides the "cogwheel" flag there's the "classical" blue one with the "United Federation of Planets" script at the shipyard and at the Academy exteriors and a white variant with classical logo and script also at the academy grounds.
Actually, I'll be happy if they got rid of the name at the bottom. Words on a flag are terrible vexillological design.

Now that I've looked at it for a while, the new "cogwhell" flag kinda looks like a telescope's eyepiece, with the stars seen through it. Kinda neat.
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Old October 5 2013, 07:49 PM   #18
M'Sharak
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

Now that I've looked at it for a while, the new "cogwheel" flag kinda looks like a telescope's eyepiece, with the stars seen through it. Kinda neat.
I like it.
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Old October 7 2013, 11:04 AM   #19
Robert Comsol
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody - but all these uniforms and hangars full of dropships...I mean shuttlecraft...and constantly seeing crew members being blown into the deadly vacuum of space reminded me again (like the movie from 2009) too much of "Starship Troopers" ("I'm doing my part").

Add to this a militant Starfleet admiral and a guy who wants to be the "Führer" with his superior breed of supermen.

Bob
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Old October 7 2013, 03:23 PM   #20
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody
Yeah. Nothing offensive at all there. Especially the rolleyes.
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Old October 7 2013, 03:46 PM   #21
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

I like them both. Besides, it's good to change things like this in a reboot to differentiate yourself from the original work.
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Old October 7 2013, 03:58 PM   #22
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

In-universe, I might speculate that perhaps the "gears" variation represents an alternate design used for memorials, and in funerals for Starfleet officers and Federation statesmen -- a flag of mourning, perhaps, maybe with the tradition originating in a world that joined the Federation in this timeline but not in the Prime timeline.
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Old October 7 2013, 05:00 PM   #23
Robert Comsol
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody
Yeah. Nothing offensive at all there. Especially the rolleyes.
Well, when I saw the new UFP flag I immediately felt some discomfort and needed to track it down.

Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.

Bob
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Old October 7 2013, 06:29 PM   #24
M'Sharak
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody
Yeah. Nothing offensive at all there. Especially the rolleyes.
Well, when I saw the new UFP flag I immediately felt some discomfort and needed to track it down.

Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.

Bob
You might be the first to have come up with that particular allusion. If indeed allusion it be - honestly, I think to draw that connection is stretching things a bit far.
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Old October 7 2013, 07:12 PM   #25
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Funny story, my elementary school (mid-90's) used the UFP logo (Movie/TNG style) and just changed the color from blue to purple.
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Old October 7 2013, 08:49 PM   #26
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Yeah. Nothing offensive at all there. Especially the rolleyes.
Well, when I saw the new UFP flag I immediately felt some discomfort and needed to track it down.

Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.

Bob
You might be the first to have come up with that particular allusion. If indeed allusion it be - honestly, I think to draw that connection is stretching things a bit far.
I'm guessing from Bob's location as "USS Berlin" and from earlier comments that he's from Germany, so he might be a bit more sensitive than the rest of us to that kind of related imagery. But yeah, for the rest of us, I'm pretty sure there's nothing more to it than an interesting design deviation.
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Old October 7 2013, 09:05 PM   #27
Sindatur
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

B.J. wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

Well, when I saw the new UFP flag I immediately felt some discomfort and needed to track it down.

Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.

Bob
You might be the first to have come up with that particular allusion. If indeed allusion it be - honestly, I think to draw that connection is stretching things a bit far.
I'm guessing from Bob's location as "USS Berlin" and from earlier comments that he's from Germany, so he might be a bit more sensitive than the rest of us to that kind of related imagery. But yeah, for the rest of us, I'm pretty sure there's nothing more to it than an interesting design deviation.
True, but, there's no similarity except the CogWheel, which people have posted several images of with much more similarity. The Starfleet seal doesn't have a Red background, and doesn't have a schwastika
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Old October 7 2013, 11:16 PM   #28
M'Sharak
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

B.J. wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

Well, when I saw the new UFP flag I immediately felt some discomfort and needed to track it down.

Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.

Bob
You might be the first to have come up with that particular allusion. If indeed allusion it be - honestly, I think to draw that connection is stretching things a bit far.
I'm guessing from Bob's location as "USS Berlin" and from earlier comments that he's from Germany, so he might be a bit more sensitive than the rest of us to that kind of related imagery. But yeah, for the rest of us, I'm pretty sure there's nothing more to it than an interesting design deviation.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the location, and I do understand the reasons why certain symbols carry extra freight there. However, I still maintain that it's a reach too far. With the exception of the gear wheel device—which has itself been shown in this thread to be far from an unusual feature in seals and emblems national, civic, and fraternal—the two flags have nothing whatsoever in common.


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Old October 7 2013, 11:17 PM   #29
iguana_tonante
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Why didn't they just stick with the UN inspired UFP flag? No, they felt they had to "re-invent the wheel" () and you see what kind of allusions that did evoke.
As far I can see, it evoked that only for you.
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Old October 8 2013, 03:54 AM   #30
Sci
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Re: STID Federation Seal Question...

Indeed, the first time I saw the "cog wheel" variation of the Federation flag, I thought of the Flag of the International Labour Organization, not the flag of the Nazi German Labour Front -- which I had nebver heard abvout before today.
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