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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old November 17 2013, 07:21 AM   #586
DigificWriter
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ Ok. I wasn't sure, so I figured I'd clarify my point just in case.

BTW, my 'personal canon' is that Kes simply didn't write her report and Janeway never pressed her about doing it.
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Old November 17 2013, 07:34 AM   #587
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Even if the report wasn't written, they all had a discussion that used the word "Krenim" more than once.

KES: Well, as Tuvok said, I've only seen pieces of one possible future.
PARIS: You know what? Don't tell me. I don't wanna know. I like a little mystery in my life.
JANEWAY: Tom's right. I think we should all leave the future to the future.
TUVOK: While I agree it would not be wise for Kes to make all of her experiences public, a report on anything she knows about these Krenim might be useful.
KES: I'll get started right away.
JANEWAY: Hang on a minute. I didn't mean now. Stay and enjoy your party.
KES: If there's one thing that this experience has taught me, Captain, it's that there's no time like the present.
Exactly how much rum does Janeway put in her coffee?
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Old November 17 2013, 07:43 AM   #588
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

"Before and After" got retconned out of existence as soon as Kes left the ship and became an energy being. Because of that, she never lived her life on Voyager including the Krenim encounters.

Notice how Seven was in Kes' place in getting the reading of the Chroniton Warhead? It was to show how Kes' role in the story now never happened.

They just didn't make it clear enough.
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Old November 17 2013, 07:52 AM   #589
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

All things being equal, what's more likely.... that they deliberately decided that all of Kes' experiences in Before and After magically disappeared after the Gift somehow, despite how many times Trek's engaged in time travel without memory loss on anyone's part, and deliberately decided not to mention or even hint at this.... or they just couldn't be bothered to look over their own episodes for important details like this? I think we all know the answer.
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Old November 17 2013, 07:53 AM   #590
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
"Before and After" got retconned out of existence as soon as Kes left the ship and became an energy being. Because of that, she never lived her life on Voyager including the Krenim encounters.

Notice how Seven was in Kes' place in getting the reading of the Chroniton Warhead? It was to show how Kes' role in the story now never happened.

They just didn't make it clear enough.
In which case Neelix's Ocampan lung would have vanished and he would have died.
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Old November 17 2013, 08:01 AM   #591
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

They're called Parallel timelines.

In Before and After, all of her new adventures downstream in the past made her old adventures in the future more impossible because the crew of Voyager never saw her coming or never expected her to be arriving despite in their own pasts encountering Kes in her personal future that they should have already met her, and they should have had a biotemporal chamber waiting for her.
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Old November 17 2013, 08:16 AM   #592
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

When they were doing the final rewrite to incorporate Seven, they probably just referenced the "Before and After" scene for the torpedo's frequency and rewrote Kes' dialogue for Seven. And Star Trek often suggests that trips into the future are only one possible future.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Exactly how much rum does Janeway put in her coffee?
More like Irish whiskey would be my guess.
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Old November 17 2013, 09:28 AM   #593
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Definitely whiskey.
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Old November 17 2013, 09:37 AM   #594
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

No wonder she flips out during the weeks they're roughing it again and power is scarce.
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Old November 17 2013, 02:11 PM   #595
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
The Five Year Mission is, in the title sequence, said to be about them "seeking out new life and new civilizations" and going where "where no has gone before".

Going where no man has gone before, means going away from charted space and not going back into charted space. It's about going deeper and deeper into uncharted space and not leaving until the 5 years are up.

Going to colony worlds, starbases, etc, is them going where other men had gone before, and thus violates the title's premise.
There is a difference between uncharted space and unvisited space. For all we know there could be a dozen systems within a few weeks travel of say stabase 11 that had never been visited by a manned ship.

There is also of course the simple fact that's it's primary mission could have been the whole seek out new life...... but that wouldn't mean that Starfleet couldn't give it another mission i.e. Disaster relief.

And no it doesn't violate the premise, simple because all it states is that the Enterprise is on a five year mission to seek out new life and new civilisations....

Back in the days of sail, I might be mistaken but didn't those ships that where exploring the oceans of Earth sometimes call in at known places?
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Old November 17 2013, 02:34 PM   #596
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Back in the days of sail, I might be mistaken but didn't those ships that where exploring the oceans of Earth sometimes call in at known places?
Voyages were about imperialism: rather than pure discovery, voyages of exploration were concerned with finding new routes to known production centers, controlling them, and securing the state's claim to them by establishing a presence in territories along those routes. Science and culture were secondary, at best.
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Old November 17 2013, 05:46 PM   #597
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

MacLeod wrote: View Post
And no it doesn't violate the premise, simple because all it states is that the Enterprise is on a five year mission to seek out new life and new civilisations....
And any time they went to a colony world or a starbase or visited some area that sent out a message, they violated that mission.

If TOS can get away with it, I don't see why VOY should be endlessly critiqued because they didn't slavishly stick to their premise with no wriggle room whatsoever.

Especially seeing how VOY's premise wasn't a sustainable one in the first place.
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Old November 17 2013, 05:55 PM   #598
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

If your interpretation of TOS' premise held, Kirk would have been court martialed, had the Starfleet admiralty decided to.

If Voyager's premise held, the ship would have been, at times, dead in space. No one's decisions or actions, including Janeway's, would have made a difference.

The former can be dealt within internally to the story. The latter strains credibility.
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Old November 17 2013, 06:00 PM   #599
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Enterprise is really the only one of the three "To Boldly Go" Trek series that could actually live up to its premise because it was set in a period of time where space truly was "the Final Frontier". TOS and TNG couldn't truly fulfill the tenets of that premise because there was actually very little space that hadn't been explored by the periods of time in which they were set.
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Old November 17 2013, 06:23 PM   #600
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post

If Voyager's premise held, the ship would have been, at times, dead in space. No one's decisions or actions, including Janeway's, would have made a difference.
Yeah forbid we have stories about adapting under pressure, establishing relationships with new cultures to get the supplies or repairs they need. That would've been interesting.
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