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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 23 2013, 07:21 PM   #421
Guy Gardener
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Considering there was between 3 and 10 episodes inbetween some of Cullah's stories, where the stories in those gaps never mentioned Cullah, or the continuing Kazon threat and could have aired at any point in the seven year run, if you could imagine that they would ever dare film an episode in season 6 without it Jeri Ryan wandering around in the back ground poking her chest out... Meh?
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Old October 23 2013, 08:31 PM   #422
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^You may insert the villain-of-the-season into Cullah's place, if you like. However, his appearances are, for some reason, being counted as evidence of deeper development within the series without consideration to the quality thereof. Indeed, the reappearances of holo-Seska, at best a residual of old conflicts, are being counted. Instead of simply counting the number of time writers kept their facts straight, there should be more evaluation of the effects of continuity and the process by which the general narrative becomes richer and more insightful.
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Old October 23 2013, 08:59 PM   #423
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I always viewed Seska as the main recurring antagonist in the first two seasons. Cullah wasn't much of one, too often he came off as a really horrible leader that had no clue what to do. It was Seska that really pulled the strings.
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Old October 23 2013, 09:46 PM   #424
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Even Seska couldn't save Culluh from some of his more dumb moves.
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Old October 24 2013, 04:01 AM   #425
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Who came up with the idea of Culluh being overtly sexist? Felt like a really cheap device because of the then novelty of Janeway being the female captain. My wild guess would be Jeri Taylor, given her Mary Sue approach to Janeway, so naturally the villain would have to be so dastardly evil that he also hates women. Oh no! Can Janeway defeat this chauvinist pig? That's why I could never take him seriously as an antagonist.

It's hard to believe Michael Piller would have had all of this under his watch, after what he did in TNG and DS9. I do like his idea of the Kazon representing gangs, with the DQ having no government to put things in order so everything is anarchy. Too much executive meddling? We know what he had to deal with for INSURRECTION.
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Old October 24 2013, 05:09 AM   #426
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Unless you count the "we're going home" theme as serialization... it's really not there. Some character arcs that span episodes, some mini-arcs until we move on to the next alien bad guy, but nothing really substantive enough to be called an overall serialization.
That kind of ends up happening when you don't really have a plot for your show.
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Old October 24 2013, 07:48 AM   #427
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Would you guys be making the same argument against Bones and The X-Files?
I've never seen much of Bones, but I don't think The X-Files and Star Trek: Voyager are comparable in format.

The X-Files alternated between episodes devoted to (a) a serialized narrative that spanned all nine seasons and (b) standalone episodes, with a strong sense of character continuity throughout. Star Trek: Voyager didn't have a series-long serial narrative of any substance. Enterprise, really, was much closer -- a mix of standalone episodes and a serial narrative (the temporal cold war) that was central to the series but only the direct focus of a few episodes a season.
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Old October 24 2013, 08:03 AM   #428
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

That just lends more strength to Berman's stance that they should have waited until DS9 was finished to begin to do VOY. It would've given them the time they needed to iron out the conceptual flaws in the show, hire a new permanent writing staff and by then the Suits at Paramount would've been more willing to invest in a show that used greater serialization.
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Old October 24 2013, 08:59 AM   #429
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

It probably would've been better if they did wait.
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Old October 24 2013, 10:09 AM   #430
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

But would it have happened?
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Old October 24 2013, 05:37 PM   #431
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

DS9 was able to do a lot of the things that made it good because Berman's focus was mostly on VOY and the TNG movies. You take out VOY, would DS9 have been the same?
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Old October 24 2013, 05:40 PM   #432
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Eventually they were waiting out Berman's 10 year long contract.

The less work he did, the less they had to pay him for losing them money.
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Old October 24 2013, 06:18 PM   #433
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^Are you sure that Voyager (and later, Enterprise) wasn't instead life support for UPN?
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Old October 24 2013, 07:13 PM   #434
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
DS9 was able to do a lot of the things that made it good because Berman's focus was mostly on VOY and the TNG movies. You take out VOY, would DS9 have been the same?
Berman was just as involved in DS9, it's just that Ira Behr and Ron Moore are whiners who needed a scapegoat.
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Old October 24 2013, 07:28 PM   #435
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Solbor's Blood wrote: View Post
^Are you sure that Voyager (and later, Enterprise) wasn't instead life support for UPN?
You think there was just "one" problem?
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