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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 21 2013, 12:01 AM   #376
Guy Gardener
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Well that's the inherit discontinuity in Voyager for you.

They take an episode like this where the wallpaper is set up from the subconscious of the character tapped as the episode lead. That's a cluster of bread crumbs that should be picked up by subsequent episodes, or those seeds should never have been planted.

You know like the time Chakotay and B'Elanna made out in a dream, or Tom said that his entire life revolved around boats and sailing.

Voyager continually started stories it had no interest in following through.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:16 AM   #377
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

^ As a writer myself, I wouldn't have even followed through on the Doctor/Kes or B'Elanna/Chakotay things because there was no reason to. Sometimes random occurrences are simply that: random occurrences.

I'm not understanding the Tom reference, though.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:33 AM   #378
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

30 days.

Why Tom was obsessed with the space ocean.

"I loved mucking about in boats as a kid, I tried to sign up to the Coast Guard, but my daddy wouldn't let me, and then he made me join Starfleet instead. It's not fair. He ruins everything."

Or words to that effect.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:49 AM   #379
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Dunno if they were seriously going for a Kes/Doc thing in the episode "Projections", but they definitely implied he had something for her much later in "Darkling". If Kes had stayed, I suspect it would have just been a one way thing much like Julian for Jadzia in DS9.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:10 AM   #380
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Or like they played the Doctor and Seven later on.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:55 AM   #381
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I hated that impassioned speech about freaking boats to Janeway. WHO CARES? We all have shit we liked when we were a kid that we don't do full time now.
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Old October 21 2013, 01:59 AM   #382
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Seeing how they had Seven stand in for Kes during things like "Year of Hell" (scanning the Chroniton Warhead) it's most likely they just took a leftover story element for Kes and gave it to Seven.
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Old October 21 2013, 02:14 AM   #383
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

And the story elements were immediately one million times more interesting.
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Old October 21 2013, 02:53 AM   #384
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Can't say I ever really cared for the Doc/Seven angle. What I liked about the Doc/Kes was that it was he that was doing the learning, ironically from someone who was only one year old, and I could buy that he'd be attracted to her. With Seven, I just never felt anything for it. As far as interaction, I very much prefer scenes with Seven and Tuvok sharing their views of humanity.
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Old October 21 2013, 12:34 PM   #385
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Has any one agreed with you that Voyager had more continuity than they thought there was?

Are you changing minds?
Some of us agree with him.

I just don't have a dog in this fight. I don't care if other people don't agree with me.
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Old October 21 2013, 02:57 PM   #386
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Has any one agreed with you that Voyager had more continuity than they thought there was?

Are you changing minds?
The list of "Maquis episodes" does a lot, in my mind, to illustrate the problems of narrative development from episode to episode, season to season. In many of the episodes, the Maquis aspect is no more than a minor aspect of the characters' background, if not simply throwaway lines that give the characters depth. Many of them are really just Seska episodes: her conflicts had far superseded her mission to infiltrate the organization, transforming almost immediately into issues of how the ship was failing to capitalize on opportunities (as well as her personal issues with Chakotay). (ETA: almost all Maquis episodes concerned a conflict with an outside source rather than a tension within the crew, and even when that happened, it was more between Chakotay and the remaining Maquis). Too many Maquis episodes are really just contrivances in which someone from the past has come up with a means of seeking personal revenge. Worst Case Scenario? someone forgot to tell Chakotay and B'Elanna that their Maquis story had ended long before it did in the Alpha Quadrant.

The fact that TNG and DS9 did fewer Maquis episodes seems irrelevant: they introduced the Maquis as a vehicle that Michael Piller intended to be a prime aspect of Voyager. Nonetheless, Voyager never developed the Maquis as well as the other shows did, particularly with Ro Laren and Michael Eddington. THose two spoke more to an evolving and unique way of life more than Chakotay did (and of which he would less and less).
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Old October 21 2013, 05:30 PM   #387
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I could never believe Chakotay as a Maquis leader. This is what he said to a young Kazon in the episode "Initiations", in the episode where suddenly he's a staunch pacifist, claims his home is Arizona:

I have no interest in your territory or anybody else's. My people taught me a man does not own land.
It's funny he actually says that, especially when the issue at the heart of the entire Maquis deal is essentially a LAND DISPUTE.
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Old October 22 2013, 12:38 AM   #388
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Solbor's Blood wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
It was always sort of odd that even some of the provisional ranked Maquis were Harry's superiors and could give him orders. Even Seven, with no rank at all, seemed to order him around but that might have just been her forceful personality. Too bad he didn't comply with the "Take off your clothes" command.
To be fair, Seven would order Janeway around.
Was there anyone Seven didn't order around, at least once?

teacock wrote: View Post
Do they need catering when there's a replicator in every room?
Somebody has to program it. Obviously Janeway needs help since she's incapable of making it work properly.

teacock wrote: View Post
What if you took that pill and you already had two kidneys. Would you get another one.

I would have liked it if Trek had more about colony worlds. Bab 5 was interesting in showing the divisions between Mars and Earth and how colony world peoples were often very different. It was way too homogenous in Star Trek.
Any populated world that isn't the home world of some species is a colony world.

The Overlord wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ Not (re)using characters has nothing to do with continuty.
It does when it makes logical sense for a character to appear and then they don't because they writers thought they killed them off, but really didn't.

Why was Naomi Wildman spending all her time with 7 of 9 or Neelix, rather then her own mother? Why wasn't Samantha Wildman spending any time with Naomi? Was she just a bad mother or something. Its not good story telling to have a mother and daughter on a show and then just have the mother disappear with no explanation, but keep the daughter around, it begs a lot of questions.
Naomi spent a lot of time with her mother off-camera. When it came to the rest of the time, several of the crew were tutoring Naomi, and she spent time on the holodeck and with her friends. And don't most kids go through a phase where they consider their parents boring?

GoRe Star wrote: View Post
Even a stranded ship with only a 150 people on it can have a command clique.
A group of a dozen people (or fewer) can have a command clique.

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
@Guy: Continuity is continuity, regardless of how it's manifested.

However, just to bolster my point, let's do an episode-by-episode breakdown of Voyager Seasons 3 through 7 - in production order unless otherwise specified - and examine their connections, if any, and the continuity, if any, between them.

Season 3
The Chute:
Standalone episode

Remember:
* Is referenced in Shattered

The Swarm:
* Is referenced in Future's End, Part 2
* Features the first hints of romantic attraction between Tom and B'Elanna
* Marks the first appearance on Voyager of Doctor Lewis Zimmerman, who was previously referenced in Projections

Warlord:
* Introduces the Paxau Resort holoprogram, which reappears in The Q and the Grey, Macrocosm, Alter Ego, Blood Fever, Darkling, and Before and After
* Features the end of Neelix and Kes' relationship

The Q and the Grey:
* Second installment in the Q Civil War multi-episode arc, and consequently references the first episode in said arc, Death Wish
* Features the Paxau Resort holoprogram introduced in Warlord

Macrocosm:
* Features the return of Neelix's news program (albeit under a slightly different name)
* Features the Paxau Resort holoprogram introduced in Warlord
* References Neelix's missing lung (Phage) and the fact that holodecks run on a separate power generator (Parallax)

Alter Ego:
* Introduces the character of Ensign Vorik and establishes his interest in B'Elanna
* References the holographic version of James Moriarty from TNG's Elementary, Dear Data and Ship in a Bottle
* Features a scene between Tom and B'Elanna that is meant to foreshadow events in Blood Fever, as per producer statements
* Introduces a story element (the Vulcan game of kal-toh) that will be revisited in the episode The Omega Directive

Fair Trade:
* Features Ensign Vorik
* Features a reference to TNG's The First Duty by repeating a line that Picard says to Wesley in that episode ("The first duty of every Starfleet officer is the truth")
* Introduces a line of dialogue that is later referenced in Homestead (Janeway joking about making Neelix the Federation ambassador to the Delta Quadrant)

Blood Fever:
* Directly follows up on Vorik's interest in B'Elanna as established in Alter Ego
* Follows up on the Tom/B'Elanna romance introduced in The Swarm
* Features the first appearance of the Borg on Voyager in the form of a deceased drone, directly setting up the events of Unity

Unity:
* Follows on from Blood Fever by featuring the Borg
* Is referenced in Scorpion, Part 2
* Foreshadows the Scorpion 2-parter through dialogue (B'Elanna talking about the Borg having encountered an enemy who overpowered them) and plot ideas (the Borg corpse and the disabled Borg cube, which was intended to have been disabled by Species 8472)
* References TNG's The Best of Both Worlds 2-parter

Rise:
* Establishes a plot idea (Neelix and Tuvok's bet) that is later resolved in the episode Repression
* Re-uses or revisits story ideas used in the original Star Trek, specifically the episodes The Gallileo Seven, For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky, Amok Time, and The Tholian Web

Darkling:
* Mentions the character of T'Pau, who was introduced in the original Star Trek and later re-used in Star Trek Enterprise
* Mentions something (Harry being separated from an away team and infected with a virus) that is referenced in Favorite Son
* Is referenced in Real Life in the form of dialogue (Tom wanting to check The Doctor's systems after his recent 'tinkering')

Favorite Son:
* References something (Harry being separated from an away team and infected with a virus) that is mentioned as having happened in Darkling

Before and After:
* Directly sets up events that are later seen, albeit slightly differently, in the Year of Hell 2-parter
* Features Neelix appearing in a gold Operations uniform, which also happens in Tuvix, the Year of Hell 2-parter, and Living Witness

Real Life:
* References Darkling through dialogue (Tom wanting to check The Doctor's systems after his recent 'tinkering')

Distant Origin:
* Follows up on plot points introduced in Basics P2, Fair Trade, and Macrocosm (Ensign Hogan's bones, uniform, and skull, and the warp plasma canister that the Voth acquire)
* Is referenced in Displaced (Tom and B'Elanna's bet, which led to them visiting a Klingon exercise program on the holodeck)

Displaced:
* References Distant Origin (Tom and B'Elanna's bet, which led to them visiting a Klingon exercise program on the holodeck)

Worst-Case Scenario:
* Features the return of Seska

Scorpion, Part 1:
* Features references/call-backs to Unity
* References TNG's The Best of Both Worlds 2-parter and the Battle of Wolf 359
* Introduces the plot idea of tension between Chakotay and Janeway, which will eventually culminate in the former's considering mutiny during the events of the Equinox 2-parter
* Introduces the holographic Leonardo Da Vinci, who reappears in Concerning Flight
* Introduces the holographic version of Leonardo Da Vinci's workshop, which reappears in The Raven, Scientific Method, and The Omega Directive

Season 4
Scorpion, Part 2:
* Is referenced in Shattered
* References Unity in both dialogue and through the re-usage of plot ideas
* Introduces characters and plot ideas that are later revisited in The Raven, Dark Frontier, and The Voyager Conspiracy

The Gift:
* Serves as a direct follow-up to the events of the Scorpion 2-parter with regards to Seven of Nine and her character arc

Nemesis:
Standalone episode

Day of Honor:
* Follows up on the Tom/B'Elanna romance first introduced in The Swarm and continued in Blood Fever

Revulsion:
* References the events of Day of Honor and the Scorpion 2-parter through 'dating' dialogue
* Features Tuvok being promoted to Lt. Commander

The Raven:
* Directly follows up on characters and story elements first introduced in Scorpion, Part 2

Scientific Method:
* Features Chakotay reviewing the same Excelsior logs first seen in Flashback
* Features the holographic recreation of Leonardo Da Vinci's workshop first introduced in Scorpion P1

Year of Hell, Parts 1 and 2:
* Are a direct follow-up to events depicted in the episode Before and After, even though some of said events play out differently in the former episode than they do here

Random Thoughts:
Standalone episode

Concerning Flight:
* Features the holographic Leonardo Da Vinci first introduced in Scorpion, Part 1
* Contains a reference to the original Star Trek episode "Requiem for Methuselah)

Mortal Coil:
* Introduces plot elements that are later partially revisited in the episode Night
* References the events of Phage through dialogue

Message in a Bottle:
* Introduces the Hirogen, who later reappear in Hunters, Prey, the The Killing Game 2-parter, and Flesh and Blood
* Sets up plot ideas that are followed up on in Pathfinder, Life Line, Inside Man, Author, Author, and Endgame
* References Lifesigns through dialogue (could also be construed as referencing Heroes and Demons as well)
* References TNG's Unification, Part 2 through dialogue
* Sets up a story idea (Harry trying to successfully program a replacement EMH) that is later followed up on - and reversed - in Nothing Human

Waking Moments:
Standalone episode

Hunters:
* Features the return of the Hirogen, who were first introduced in Message in a Bottle, and will later feature in Prey, the The Killing Game 2-parter, and Flesh and Blood
* Introduces a story element that will later be followed up on in Hope and Fear
* Sets up a story element (the destruction of the Maquis) that will later be revisited in Extreme Risk
* Follows up on story elements introduced in Message in a Bottle and which will be in turn expanded upon by Pathfinder, Inside Man, Life Line, Author, Author, and Endgame

Prey:
* References the events of Scorpion through 'dating' dialogue

Retrospect:
Standalone episode

The Killing Game, Parts 1 and 2:
* References the events of Resolutions through on-screen graphics

Vis a Vis:
Standalone episode

The Omega Directive:
* Features the return of the holographic version of Leonardo Da Vinci's workshop first introduced in Scorpion, Part 1
* Features a story element first set up in Alter Ego (Harry playing kal-toh)

Unforgettable:
Standalone episode

Living Witness:
Standalone episode

Demon:
* Introduces Voyager's 'Gray Mode', which will be seen again in Counterpoint
* Introduces story elements and characters that will be followed up on in Course: Oblivion

One:
Standalone episode

Hope and Fear:
* Follows up on a story element introduced in Hunters

Season 5
Night:
* Partially follows up on a story element introduced in Mortal Coil
* Introduces the The Adventures of Captain Proton holoprogram, which reappears in Thirty Days, Bride of Chaotica!, and Shattered
* Introduces the Malon, who later reappear in Extreme Risk, Think Tank, and Juggernaut

Drone:
Standalone episode

Extreme Risk:
* Follows up on a story element (the destruction of the Maquis) that is introduced in Hunters
* Features the Malon, who first appeared in Night
* Introduces the Delta Flyer

In the Flesh:
* Features the character of Boothby (albeit as a Species 8472 'imposter'), tying it directly to numerous episodes of TNG which also feature the character
* Features the return of Species 8472, last seen in the episodes Prey and Scorpion, Part 2

Once Upon a Time:
Standalone episode

Nothing Human:
* Introduces the character of Tabor, who later reappears in Repression
* Follows up on and reverses a story idea introduced in Message in a Bottle (Harry trying to successfully program a replacement EMH)

Timeless:
* Contains a reference to Caretaker through 'dating' dialogue
* Is indirectly referenced in Relativity as being one of 3 temporal incidents with which the Voyager and/or her crew were involved

Thirty Days:
* Features Paris being demoted to Ensign and confined to the brig
* Features the return of the Captain Proton holoprogram first introduced in Night

Infinite Regress:
* Is referenced in Unimatrix Zero, Part 1

Counterpoint:
* Features the return of Voyager's 'Gray Mode'
* Introduces the Devore, who are referenced again in Think Tank and Dragon's Teeth

Gravity:
Standalone episode

Latent Image:
* References Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn through the re-usage of dialogue ("We come here today to pay final respects to our honored dead.")

Bride of Chaotica!:
* References Parallax through re-usage of dialogue (Tom Paris joking about the crew getting out and pushing the ship off of a subspace sandbar)
* Features the return of the Captain Proton holoprogram
* Introduces the character of Doctor Chaotica, who returns in the episode Shattered

The Fight:
* Features the return of the character of Boothby (albeit in hallucationary form), tying it to In the Flesh and the TNG episodes in which the character appears
* Contains a visual reference to the episode Tattoo in the form of Chakotay's grandfather bearing the mark that Kolopak, Chakotay's father, received in Tattoo and that Chakotay himself now bears
* Marks the first appearance of Chakotay's boxing program, which later returns in Tsunkatse under a slightly different name

Bliss:
Standalone episode

The Disease:
Standalone episode

Dark Frontier:
* Follows up on story and plot ideas from Scorpion, Part 2 and The Raven

Course: Oblivion:
* Is a direct sequel to the episode Demon

Think Tank:
* Contains references to the Malon, introduced in Night, and Devore, introduced in Counterpoint
* Contains a reference to the episode Timeless in the form of the Think Tank demanding the quantum slipstream drive introduced in that episode
* References the Vidiians and the Phage, both of which were first introduced in Phage

Juggernaught:
* Features the return of the Malon

Someone to Watch Over Me:
Standalone episode

11:59:
Standalone episode

Relativity:
* Is a direct sequel to the Future's End 2-parter
* Contains a reference to Timeless in the form of dialogue
* Also contains a dialogue reference to at least one of the show's other time-travel episodes (Time and Again, the Year of Hell 2-parter, this episode, Fury, Shattered, or Endgame)

Equinox, Parts 1 and 2:
* Follows on from a story element introduced through dialogue in State of Flux
* Features the culmination of a plot idea first introduced in Scorpion, Part 1 (tension between Janeway and Chakotay)

Survival Instinct:
* Features a visual reference to Distant Origin in the form of some Voth
* Features a dialogue reference to TNG's Redemption, Part 2

Barge of the Dead:
* Contains dialogue references to the DS9 episodes The Way of the Warrior, Homefront, and You are Cordially Invited

Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy:
* Introduces the Heirarchy, who return in The Void and Renaissance Man
* Introduces a story idea (the Emergency Command Hologram) which will be followed up on in the Workforce 2-parter and Renaissance Man and referenced in Author, Author

Dragon's Teeth:
* Contains a reference to the Devore from Counterpoint

Alice:
Standalone episode

Riddles:
Standalone episode

One Small Step:
Standalone episode

The Voyager Conspiracy:
* Follows up on story elements from Scorpion, Part 2, The Raven, and Dark Frontier
* References the episodes Caretaker, Basics, Part 2 and Message in a Bottle

Pathfinder:
* Follows up on story ideas introduced in Message in a Bottle and followed up on in Hunters (communication between the Alpha Quadrant and Voyager)
* Features the returns of Reginald Barclay (first seen, albeit in holographic form, in Projections) and Admiral Paris (first seen, albeit in hallucinatory form, in Persistence of Vision)
* Introduces the character of Commander Harkins, who will appear again in Inside Man

Fair Haven:
* Introduces story elements and characters who will return in the episode Spirit Folk

Tsunkatse:
* Features the return of Chakotay's boxing program (albeit under a different name), which was introduced in The Fight
* Mentions B'Elanna's stuffed animal Toby the Targ, which is again mentioned in Author, Author

Blink of an Eye:
Standalone episode

Virtuoso:
Standalone episode

Collective:
* Introduces Mezoti, Icheb, Azan, and Rebi

Memorial:
Standalone episode

Spirit Folk:
* Is a direct follow-up to the episode Fair Haven, featuring the return of story elements and characters introduced in that episode

Ashes to Ashes:
Standalone episode

Child's Play:
Standalone episode

Good Shepherd:
* Introduces the character of Tal Celes, who will reappear in The Haunting of Deck Twelve

Fury:
* Features the return of Kes
* Contains dialogue that references Ensign Wildman's pregnancy (first introduced in Elogium) and clears up any confusion concerning her gestation period

Live Fast and Prosper:
Standalone episode

Life Line:
* Features the return of Doctor Lewis Zimmerman, who is first referenced in Projections and first seen in The Swarm (albeit in holographic form)
* Features the returns of Reginald Barclay (previously seen in Projections - albeit in holographic form - and Pathfinder) and Deanna Troi (previously seen in Pathfinder)
* Features an appearance from Admiral Hayes, who was first introduced in Star Trek: First Contact
* Contains a dialogue reference to the DS9 episode Doctor Bashir, I Presume, in which Lewis Zimmerman made his debut appearance

Muse:
Standalone episode

The Haunting of Deck Twelve:
* Features the return of Tal Celes, who was first introduced in Good Shepherd

Unimatrix Zero, Part 1:
* Contains references to TNG's The Best of Both Worlds 2-parter and the Voyager episodes Unity, Infinite Regress, and Survival Instinct
* Introduces
* Features the destruction of the original Delta Flyer
* Features Tom Paris being promoted back to Lieutenant (J.G.)

Season 7
Unimatrix Zero, Part 2:
* Introduces story elements that will be followed up on in Endgame

Drive (produced and aired after Imperfection, yet set before it):
* Features the debut of the Delta Flyer II
* Features Tom and B'Elanna getting married

Imperfection (produced and aired before Drive, yet set after it)
* Features the departures of Mezoti, Rebi, and Azan

Critical Care:
Standalone episode

Repression (produced and aired after Imperfection, yet set before it)
* Features the return of the Maquis crewmembers Chell (first seen in Learning Curve) and Tabor (first seen in Nothing Human)
* Features the resolution of the bet made between Neelix and Tuvok in Rise

inside Man:
* Features the returns of Reginald Barclay, Deanna Troi, Admiral Paris, and Commander Harkins
* References the Voyager episodes Eye of the Needle (the Romulans having been interested in Voyager for years), Mortal Coil, Hope and Fear, and Bliss, and the TNG episode Suspicions

Body and Soul (produced after Flesh and Blood but aired before it):
* Is referenced in Flesh and Blood

Flesh and Blood:
* Features the return of the Hirogen
* References Body and Soul (which was produced after it but aired before it)

Nightingale:
* Introduces the Kraylor, who will reappear in Workforce, Part 1

Shattered:
* Features an appearance by Seska
* Revisits time periods/events seen in the episodes Caretaker, Macrocosm, Basics, Part 2, Scorpion, Part 2, Bride of Chaotica!, and Bliss
* Contains a dialogue reference to the episode Remember

Lineage:
* Follows up on story ideas referenced in Parallax and Faces
* Introduces a story element (B'Elanna's pregnancy) that will be followed up on in Prophecy and Endgame

Repentance:
* Introduces the Benkarans, who will reappear in Workforce, Part 1

Prophecy:
* Follows up on a story element (B'Elanna's pregnancy) first introduced in Lineage

The Void:
* Features the return of the Hierarchy, who were first introduced in Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy

Workforce, Parts 1 and 2:
* Follows up on a story element (the Emergency Command Hologram) first introduced in Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy
* Features the reappearances of the Kraylor (Nightingale), Brunali (Collective), and Benkarans (Repentance)
* Features the character of Ensign Golwat, who was first introduced in Caretaker and also appears in the episodes Flashback and Hunters

Human Error:
* Introduces a story element (Seven pursuing a romance with Chakotay) that will be followed up on in Endgame

Q2:
* Is the third and final installment of the Q Civil War story arc, and thus contains references to the previous two installments, Death Wish and The Q and the Gray
* Contains a veiled dialogue reference to the TNG episode Q Who? (Q telling Junior not to provoke the Borg)
* Revisits a story element first seen in the TNG episode Deja Q (Junior being willing to sacrifice himself to a friend from the consequences of his actions, just as his father was willing to sacrifice himself to save the Enterprise-D from the consequences of his actions in that episode)

Author, Author:
* Mentions B'Elanna's stuffed animal Toby the Targ, which was first mentioned in Tsunkatse
* Features the return of Admiral Paris, John Torres (first seen in Lineage after being referred to in Parallax and Faces), and Reginald Barclay

Friendship One:
* Features the return of Joseph Carey

Natural Law:
Standalone episode

Homestead:
* References a line in Fair Trade (Janeway joking about making Neelix the Federation ambassador to the Delta Quadrant)

Renaissance Man:
* Follows up on a story element (the Emergency Command Hologram) first introduced in Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy and also featured in Workforce, Parts 1 and 2

Endgame:
* Follows up on story ideas from Dark Frontier and the Unimatrix Zero 2-parter
* Features direct visual reference to the TNG episode All Good Things and the DS9 episode The Visitor in the form of the future Starfleet uniforms worn by the characters in the year 2402
* Features the return of Admiral Paris, Korath (introduced in the episode Prophecy), and Reginald Barclay

Also, what I've tried to demonstrate is that, despite what people involved with the show may have said, and despite common perception, Voyager is not as devoid of continuity as people think it is. I never once said that it was a heavily serialized show where you couldn't miss an episode, and have, in fact, consistently maintained that it is essentially a 'serialized procedural' in that it is quite episodic, yet also features a great deal of continuity and serialization (as I think the above will unequivocally demonstrate).
This is a very helpful list. I hadn't realized there was this much.

bud wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
To narrow it down, this is probably how I would have approached each season:

S1: Kazon
S2: Vidiians
S3: Hirogen
S4: Borg
S5: Krenim (Year of Hell)
S6: Malon
S7: A new antagonist.
I like this idea, although I would have been royally pissed if we had an entire season "Year of Hell," which turned out to be a total reset at the end of the season. Without reset, perhaps killing off a major character (or having them in a coma for a few episodes, or something), plus a badly damaged USS Voyager (that still looks in bad shape) with depleted supplies at the beginning of the next season? Now that would have been awesome.
I honestly can't see the Year of Hell taking a whole season. If you can't go anywhere because the ship doesn't work, and there's no power for the holodeck, that doesn't leave much room for 22 episodes, unless they keep getting visited or invaded by outsiders.

bud wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
I do like the idea of Chakotay being a captain, he was so underdeveloped over the whole series that a change like that might have helped him step up, making Tuvok the first officer.
I could certainly see Chakotay and Tuvok butting heads a lot more than Janeway and Chakotay did...which was almost never (so far in my watch). But at this point, I can't see Voyager without Janeway permanently. And anyway, I think they could have further developed Chakotay without killing her off.

The only way I could see Janeway being killed off is in the series finale if somehow she sacrificed herself so the rest of the crew could make it back home. Then they have a big memorial service, and they name ships and haircuts after her and whatnot.

But an even better ending would be if she ended up stranded in the DQ while the rest of the crew made it back home. That would be the ultimate justice coming full circle after her decision in the first episode. Tying a nice bow around it. Well, it would be a "valentine" for me anyway.
They should have just left Janeway and Chakotay stranded on New Earth.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
@MakeshiftPython: Do you understand what the term 'Serialized Procedural' means? You seem to be condemning Voyager for not being what you thought it should've been rather than looking at it and accepting it for what it was.

I used to have a similar attitude, but realized that if it is judged on its own merits as the type of show it actually is rather than the type of show it was originally envisioned as being, it actually works very well. It might not be everyone's 'cup of tea' when accurately judged as the Serialized Procedural that it is, but that's an entirely different thing than dismissing it because it wasn't more like, say, DS9, B5, or BSG, because that's not the kind of show it ended up being even if it was originally envisioned as being such.

@Guy: If I were going to compare and contrast The X-Files, Fringe, and Voyager based on how well they reflect the Serialized Procedural formula, I'd say that X-Files struck the best balance, with Voyager striking the next-best balance, and Fringe starting out striking a good balance before sort of morphing into a more heavily serialized show.
I've judged it as a "serialized procedural", and it sucked at it. Sometimes it got too procedural with the inane spacial anomalies that mean nothing for the characters. It's not even good at being serialized, like how Janeway makes a deal with the Hirogen, the kind of deal she condemned about making with the Kazon in the first two seasons.
Maybe she changed her mind, or else thought the Hirogen situation warranted it?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Has any one agreed with you that Voyager had more continuity than they thought there was?

Are you changing minds?
I happen to appreciate DigificWriter's efforts, and do agree.

Anwar wrote: View Post
The bigger screw up was the Professor, who despite being a super genius, couldn't fix a damn boat.
The Skipper and Gilligan should have fixed the damn boat. As for the Professor, I can see it this way:

"I'm a physicist, not a shipwright!"

And why the heck, if one was a mega Millionaire and another a World Class Actress beloved by many, didn't any rescue attempts come for them?!
The millionaire's heirs would have been pragmatic and taken their inheritances early, and was Ginger really that beloved? I can't recall her ever doing one useful thing on that island.


As far as I'm concerned, Voyager's worst continuity sin was in forgetting about the Borg baby.
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Old October 22 2013, 12:53 AM   #389
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

I award Timewalker a Golden Borg Sphere statuette for Perfection in Multi-Quote!
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Old October 22 2013, 01:01 AM   #390
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Re: The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Actual size?
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